A Holistic Approach to Death: Conversations with a Death Doula

Jennifer Deaton

Marlena  

Hello everyone and welcome to a witchy mystic and a feminist. I am your host Marlena and I am thrilled to have a very special guest with us today, Jennifer Deaton. Jennifer is a remarkable individual who has dedicated over 25 years of her life to the world of healing and spirituality. As a Reiki Master and medium she specializes in pain management at the end of life, offering comfort and solace to those in need. But Jennifer's journey does not stop there. Her profound experiences in this field led her to pursue a holistic approach to death and dying, eventually becoming a qualified death doula. She is deeply passionate about assisting individuals in their transition to the next realm, helping them to die well, while also providing the gentle landing for their loved ones into the realm of grief. And today, we also have another guest with us, or should I say guest host. And that would be my husband, Vincent. He is not only my amazing and supportive husband, but also someone who at times approaches the world of mediums with a hint of skepticism. However, he did open himself up to a unique experience when he allowed Jennifer to read him during our time in Thailand. Jennifer vents, welcome. Thank you.

Jennifer D  

Thank you. What an introduction. Thank you so much. And it's such a joy to be here with you both.

Marlena  

Well, thank you. So we met in Thailand, it was interesting and kind of funny, because we actually met your girlfriend first. And you know, just kind of passing by and breakfast. And I remember at one point, you were like you were afraid to look up. Can you explain that a little bit as to why you were afraid to look up 100%.

Jennifer D  

So when I was on, on our holiday in Thailand, I was trained to not connect with anyone in a psychic sense or a spiritual sense. So I was trying to keep my blinkers on like sort of covered. And so I was actively trying not to engage. And well, obviously the universe had other ideas because my partner mons was quite drawn to you too. straightaway. And I was like, do not look at them. Do not look at them. went on for three days. I think that you guys shared pleasantries three days. Yeah, you shared pleasantries. And then inadvertently, we had a table quite close to each other. And I had no choice but to look at you guys. And as soon as my eyes light on used to I sort of thought she's a reader.

Marlena  

And that's basically what you said to me. So that was, that was funny him. You know, we had a great time in Thailand together. He does next few days.

Vince  

I'd like to interject. Please do. So every time we saw you guys walking, I'm like, wow, there's something about those guys. There's something about their energy that is drawing me toward I have to look at them. Right? So my okay, but we're gonna be polite strangers. And then like, wow, when we finally met, I was like, Man, this is awesome. This is something special. I just want to say because I don't do that whole light. You know, I don't like people, people. There's something special. And I'm glad we broke over that barrier, because you did not want to look up.

Marlena  

Well, it was funny, because it was Vince and mons that actually started the conversation. And I think you and I were both kind of like, okay, you know, we're just kind of in our own deal. But I agree with Vince that your guys's energy. And and there was an attraction there. So it was pretty cool.

Jennifer D  

I have to agree with that. Because when Vince was saying about how his world not very peacefully, Monty is a beautiful soul too, but not not overly into the spiritual realm. And can be, I would say, very skeptical as well. So it was quite interesting that the two skeptics of our lives, connected first.

Marlena  

Right? They connected us.

Jennifer D  

But as soon as I looked at you, it was like, I could tell that you were a reader and the spiritual stuff just sort of started flowing. It was quite beautiful. And I thought, this is a beautiful soul that facilitates women to rise up and support each other. I felt that straightaway. Yeah.

Marlena  

Well, thank you. Thank you. So I want to talk about you and let's because I know you and I we discussed this a little bit when we were in Thailand, but you know your background. You're a Reiki Master. You're a death doula, but how did that all start?

Jennifer D  

Wow. Okay, so how did it all start? Well, frankly, I was originally born into grief and In death, so my mum, she had three sleeping angels before I even arrived. And so you can imagine that footprint on your soul before more children arrives. So she had five small children. And I was only five months old. And my father was killed by a drunk driver at 29. So this introduction into death and dying and how people process grief started at a very young age, I was clearly born into it. And it's just sort of snowballed from there. And I know that some people have quite a different reaction to death. But I think because we are from a big family. And so we have a lot of people that transition. So for us, the way that we react with it is quite different. And it just sort of, it's almost like my dad's passing, assisted me to follow this path. And I had no choice. Like, even though if I varied off in other careers, I was always drawn back to helping people at the end of life.

Marlena  

So can you explain to me a little more about being a death doula? What exactly is that? Because I've heard of birthing doulas, but I don't know much about a death doula, can you explain to me and my audience what that is?

Jennifer D  

Sure. So at death's door, we sort of facilitate and bring people together and organizations together at the end of life, but in a non medical way. So we sort of fill a gap. So I work a lot with like palliative care, doctors and nurses, obviously, very closely with the family. And just making sure that all resources are bought together so people can actually grieve and not have to deal with the mammoth task of doing all the paperwork like you know, when was the last time you looked at your will? Do you even know where it is? Do you have a care plan directive, which gives doctors a good indication of how you want to be cared for if you can't speak and you may not want antibiotics to prolong your life, when the end result is still going to be transitioning. Just you know things like that, do you want candles burning in the in the room, all sorts of like, from the smallest thing to the biggest thing. One of my favorite things is a death doula to share with the family is organizing a living week. And I think it's just the sweetest thing to be able to do. And that consists of almost like what we were classes and barbecue or or a grill out for you guys have scripted, yeah. So we would organize a party of such and that my client would invite everyone and I would get them to write on a piece of paper, their favorite memory of the person or something that they truly love and celebrate about that person. And throughout the night, we get there, we get to read all these beautiful statements out to the person while they're still here. And I find it's such a such a beautiful thing to do. And most of the time, actually, the client doesn't tell the people that's invited that that's what they're there for a living wage is what we call it. And so it's even more raw and beautiful. So I

Vince  

love that. You get to hear what they think of you when you're still here right after you transitioned. I think that's awesome, did it I wonder if they have stuff like that here in the United States.

Jennifer D  

They would I'm sure that death, doulas in America would be pretty much on par. I think the training is very similar from what I've seen from Australia to America, obviously, the laws in the States, laws are a little bit different. So across a lot of the law, we have to be quite educated in science, because you are caring for a body at the end of life. So there is a lot of elements and there is a lot of study.

Marlena  

So what kind of training did you have to go through to become a death doula?

Jennifer D  

Yeah, so I went through pretty vigorous training and it's ongoing, it never stops. So there's always more classes to obtain more knowledge in, for example, my clients if they want to die at home, how to care for the body, how to wrap the body, how to bring the family into almost do a celebration. Shouldn't or a ritual at the end passing where we wash their feet and their hands and their face and we talk about. So for example, if we're washing their hands, we talk about what they did with their day to day life, like their job, their passion, whilst we're washing their hands, when they wash their feet, we talk about the travels that they've had, and that kind of stuff. So it's, it's a really beautiful closing to the transition. And there's actually research out there to say, there's a way to grieve healthily. I think sometimes when grief is forced or rushed, in the sense that if you ring, a funeral director, everything then is on their time, they tell you, when they're picking up your person, they tell you, when the viewing will be when the service will be when the wave will be. So in this way, having a doula we actually just slow things down. Just so you can sit like most people that have been caring for someone that's transitioning, they've actually been flat out doing stuff, doctor's appointments, like they've just been so busy. So it's just nice to have someone to take off more of the logistics organization, as I said, like a facilitator. You know, Peter pressure off.

Marlena  

So you're also a Reiki Master, do you use Reiki during the transition with your clients?

Jennifer D  

That is a great question. So that really depends on my clients. So in Australia, we have a death doula directory, and in that there's a vast array of doulas with many personality types, you've got to find that you connect with your clients. So for example, I can be a little bit of a positive peach and, and a bit chatty. And if I'm going into a more conservative House that's more quiet and reserved. My personality type may not fit in in saying that some clients are not open to Reiki or mediumship. And I have to be very mindful. And I think because you're spending that amount of time you get to know the person, if they're open to it, then 100% It's quite lovely to hold that space. So they can just sort of reflect and I do find when I'm doing Reiki at that enter stage time that their loved ones do pop in. And, you know, that's another whole realm of being a medium. And in this work, yeah,

Vince  

I bet you that's so amazing, when that actually happens when you get to connect your client and the loved ones that passed away. And I think that would ease their, their mind they're sold to, it's okay, I can go, you know, and with you dealing with the, the paperwork itself, that's a load off the the living, it's stressful, if they can have someone do that, and just worry about themselves. And I think that's amazing. You're doing God's work type of thing. If there's a God, you're welcome. I can see how much comfort you'd give a family it were

Jennifer D  

it's quite interesting, because many people say, when they've got older relatives that are getting closer to crossing over, and they'll talk about their husbands being in the room, or they see their pets that I had years ago that had been gone. And sometimes we brush it off, you know, as a medium. It's like, Ah, no, they're actually there. They're there to take you home. So you're not alone. One of the most interesting topics I have when I'm talking to a client that's getting ready for transition, there is still a lot of fear around death and dying. So they often think they say to me, actually, is there a heaven? And as a death doula, I'm frankly not meant to impose my opinion. Right? So what I say to my clients is, tell me what your heaven is. Explain to me what your heaven is. And it's the most beautiful thing because they take me on this journey of what their Heaven is. And that is a true honor.

Vince  

But when you brought up some people say I saw this when I was crying or whatever, and then they pass. My dad saw his brother, and my mom's skeptical, skeptical, like super skeptic, but I believe, but you know, when I see you know, things move and stuff like that. I mean, things have happened. Cool. Mom doesn't believe no, she's straight. It doesn't happen. But when my dad said he saw his brother, I knew he did. You know, I mean it schedule that other people will think that but my dad came back to life like three times, he had a mesothelioma. And he was saying he was ready to go. My mom says, okay for you to go, this just crying says, No, I'm not ready, his feet start getting warm colors are coming back into his hands. And, you know, and he gave her more. And that happened like two more times. But it just shows what the Spirit could do for the body, you know, for the love of your family, you know, but yeah.

Marlena  

So with that, how would you assist the families, when there's a situation like that, where a spouse is not ready to let go, or, you know, situations like that? Is there anything that you would do both as a death doula Reiki master, and a medium to be able to help facilitate that for those of us that are still here,

Jennifer D  

It's such a great thing to bring up in. So thank you so much, that I'm gonna just kick it back and into a different dynamic. So when the vast majority of people that I've cared for, and the people that I talk to in the death's door community, it's quite interesting that the person that's passing over, actually waits until everyone leaves the room most of the time, and then they can transition completely over. So it's almost like when they're living relatives in the room, it almost tethers them to still stay here to make sure that they're okay to make sure that the person's coping, okay. And when we leave the room, it kind of gives them permission to just slip away. But in regards to the care of the family, and trying to help them understand the process and where we're at and to come to grips. So we always use so proper language, we tend to use like the words like death or dead. And some people can find that quite confronting. But it's final, when you're a death doula, you don't want to give false hope. So that's really, really important that we use the correct language in that way. And because I've been with the family for so long, so we do this elements where you have to do conflict resolution with family members, not all family members are gonna get on. And there's some people that don't want that don't want family, relatives in the room and things like that. But luckily for us, because I've had the time with the family prior, everything sorted out beforehand. So there's no uncomfortableness in saying or this is not meant to happen, or this is is meant to happen. It's all sort of beforehand. So normally, when I meet with a client, I meet the first time, probably way before the active dying stage. So I meet when they get their diagnosis, and they're they're trying to get a plan, and they're trying to work out what's the best fit. So we talk about kinds of funeral kinds of care, whether they want to green funeral, do they want to go up in fireworks with their caches? I mean, you know, the options out there are endless. So, we'd sort of never sought out like, family, all that kind of stuff. So it's good when we get to that point. When I come back in at the final, what were classes active dying, it's normally at the end of three weeks, the last three weeks, and I've already got a good rapport with the family. I already know the personality. So I cater my needs to them. It's very catered

Marlena  

in a just kind of want to go back to the beginning of of your statement when you were talking about when a soul transitions and kind of that permission to slip away when somebody leaves the room. And Vince, I saw your face because I know when your dad passed. You and your sister actually, were not there. You were driving home to get close

Vince  

to spend the night and then I told her that we had turned around so we're driving home. Well, we're you know, see my dad, and he was supposed to have done peacefully but he was still fighting. Mike. Cool. So we're gonna go spend a night with me, my sister, we're gonna go get close. We're on 84 which is a little windy thing over here and I live in California and we're driving and then I got feeling. I said, Alright, we have to turn around. It's like why dad just passed away. Then we get the phone call. It's Lisa. She's crying. Dad died. So we we turned around, but I'm so glad that I will wasn't there when when he was at the doctor's, and he was on the morphine, and he had a button to give more morphine, when when he was in pain, or uncomfortable, he kept on pressing, it wouldn't give me more. And I'm like, Hey, can you help them out? They only dose him so many times. So what happened was, I said, No, he's in pain. He needs it. I'm sorry, we can't. So I broke the machine. Because my dad said he wanted more. So I got kicked out. But if he were to pass away, and that was there, who knows what right happened? So he did the right thing. And I told my sister, I'm winded that he did this for me,

Marlena  

your dad facilitated a lot of things in our life. And we can discuss that a little bit as well in that. Jen, you got to meet Vince, his dad. Did you know The Spirit version of him? So? Which was pretty cool. Vince is not one to normally go to psychics or mediums.

Vince  

Let me interject. I believe they're there. But most of them, I don't trust I don't believe I think you're just listening for clues for what feedback that you could bring to me. That would make sense to me. You said, Don't talk. Let me tell you what I see. And I was like, okay, okay, boom, you hit your 100% on everything. As a cheese. And cheese. Awesome. So that's what I'm here to.

Marlena  

Yeah, that's why he also wanted to jump on, he was like, gents coming on, I want to be on it.

Jennifer D  

That was such a interesting night, because, like, nothing was planned. And His personality was just so like, I was not going to be able to leave without saying anything, frankly. And I still laugh and feel so warm and loved and happy with the connection that I made with your dad. He was a complete charmer, when we were having our interaction. Smooth, he was almost like trying to sweet talk me a bit in a in a charming, lovely, fun way. And it's very interesting, because people often are like, when we transition, do we keep our personalities? Or do we just become part of the collective. Now I am no expert in that room whatsoever. But I do love the fact that the people that I bring through and that I talked to, their personalities still shine through.

Marlena  

And that's good to know, because and I and I love that you brought that up, because that was something that I was curious about, too. You know, here on Earth, we have a lot of ego and big personalities, or at least we have big personalities. So do we bring that with us when we transition? Or are we coming through that way because that's how the people that are connecting with us. That's how they would recognize us. That

Jennifer D  

is, uh, I couldn't have said it any better like that. It's such a great comparison about how it would work. So yeah, the experiences that I've had, it is to show proof of life after we go with their personalities coming through so you can connect that you know that they're there. But frankly, when I'm when I'm dealing with them, there's no ego on their side whatsoever, which is just, it's just so lovely. It's also if you're Can I swear, absolutely. If you're an our soul in this lifetime, you're still going to be in our soul personality wise on that you're not going to just all of a sudden be like Mother Teresa, that's not gonna happen, you're still gonna be you. It's so interesting when I get like, say, a rough farmer. So they'll still use the language and the terminology. I had a person come through the other day that use the word poppycock. Like that is not a word that I would use in why language but for the client that I was talking to, it resonated because it was the language that they would have used so

Vince  

Okay, yeah, that makes sense. made the connection made sense to them.

Marlena  

That totally makes sense. So have you had any experiences or encounters that have left a lasting impression on you and your beliefs and spirituality being a death doula?

Jennifer D  

That's a pretty deep question, isn't it?

Marlena  

Yeah,

Jennifer D  

yeah. So have I had a did you say Have I had a lasting experience?

Marlena  

Yes, like an encounter. That just kind of sticks with you. In your experience as a death doula that may have changed, like your perception of things.

Jennifer D  

So I It's such a big question. So I'll try to break it down as best I can, because it's really hard because I come up with stories of all being remembering things of medium ship and then crossing over into dollar ships. So it's like, I've had clients, it tends to be the younger people are so young young men and women that seem to have the whole lives in front of them. So I have experiences where it truly does probably reinforce my passion for this work. You know, they just show such a, such an open time for a soul when you're dying. Like, there's no bullshit, there's no, you can't run from it, you can't hide you are in the present, you're not in the future, not, you know, still in ego, thinking about your job, your next step, because everything's always in front, I need to earn more money, I need to get a better job, I need this, I need that when you're dying, and you're in the last active stages of dying, you have nowhere else to go. Yeah, so it's quite a profound space to work in. So it really does reinforce, I think, for me, it makes me feel like, I see the joy in everything in every day. Like, I know, for our family, this might sound a bit off topic, but it does all coincide. We have a death bird. So animals in our family represent. We have a willy wagtail, which is an Australian bird. And it's a sign from my Nana, to tell me that death is pending. So it's okay. Yeah, so animals, I know that you choose to omit that the dinosaur in your bedroom in Thailand. So I know that animals are very important to you as well. So yeah, so all those things sort of coincide together.

Vince  

For those of you who don't know what she meant by director, where they were scared of little baby lizards, like to call them baby dinosaurs, and she was scared.

Marlena  

I still call them baby dinosaurs. And it was in my room. And if you listen to our episode about science, you will hear all about it. No, but I think that and bringing up signs and you know, I think signs are important throughout your life in general, whether it be a sign of death or or death coming. I get signs all the time, but I don't get signs with regards to death, just with regards to being divinely protected in in that aspect.

Vince  

I think sometimes their signs are just like what nature intends. I see a hotkey to mean something. But that's my heart's live. So that we have is established. Don't call it that way. I mean, that's where you're gonna see a heartbeat because that's where how it's live. That's all I'm saying.

Jennifer D  

Yeah, but it's like the Yeah, when it's like, constant. And it's, it's always related to a particular event, then you really do start to take notice. Like for me in regards to being a medium and working in this field as a death doula I'd noticed way before I even studied to be a death doula, I could see death in people, which can be quite confronting at times. But what I do see is the most beautiful thing that you could ever hope to see. So I'll explain. So it's sort of like an aura, I see an aura around a person. And it's the most amazing color that I do believe that we don't have English to describe the color. It's almost like gold and silver. And it's so beautiful that I'm drawn to it. So normally, if I see that aura around someone, I, my timeframe is they'll be transitioning in 18 months. So yeah, so I get many signs. So I sort of switch between using mediumship. Or seeing the signs from my Nana, as in the little bird. Or sometimes I see the deceased relatives of the client I'm working with so it comes in many ways to me. Yeah, that's

Marlena  

okay. It is. And so that makes me wonder like, you know, with your mediumship and your abilities outside of being a death doula. Does anybody ask you like, When am I going to die? Like I have no want or need to know when I'm going to die. But is that something that people have asked you? Yeah,

Jennifer D  

it's a very fine line, actually, because As I've been in situations where I've known that babies or children are going to pass, and you cannot go up, yeah, it's tough. You cannot go up to your parents and say, I believe this. Right? I think there's a bit of a law, a spirit spiritual law about this line that you can and can't cross. And it's kind of like, what purpose would it be for me to tell the family that their child or person is going to pass away? Like, if that's the path, and losing a child is the most horrific thing ever. So it's very tough, like, as a mom myself, you want to share that as another mom to another caregiver? That it's just kind of feels to me a bit uncomfortable that I wouldn't say, but if I'm doing a reading for someone, I would word it by saying, Oh, hey, have you had your yearly checkup? Or how's your blood pressure roll, you know, something like that. And the thing is, with readings, or mediumship, at all, it's not sealed. It's just an overview. It does not mean if a psychic or medium says this, this and this is going to happen. It doesn't mean it's gonna go straight directly as exactly how they said, we still have freewill. We still have other options and things that we might have to affect other people's lives with your actions. So it's pretty complicated.

Marlena  

No, absolutely, yes. Vincent, is deals

Vince  

to me that with that power knowledge that you have, there is an unspoken rule that you shouldn't tell someone that because it could change days, and then the whole time space continuum might be different. This is the way it's supposed to play out. So I feel what you're saying just feels right. You can't just say you're gonna lose this. It's that's how it's gonna play out. Well, also, that's a lot of pressure for that person as well. Yeah, that's right, a lot of suffering. Before they even happen before they even have to suffer. That's a lot of unnecessary suffering.

Jennifer D  

I had a I have an example. So when I was a little girl, I was, I was eight, and I had a best friend. And she was my sunshine. So I had a turbulent childhood. It was a bit rough at home. And my school life was a escape. And so every time I went to school, I met up with my best friend. And we will giggle and play and laugh all day. And I adored her. Now, I went to bed one night as an eight year old. So this was pretty horrific. And I seen her death. And trying to process that as an eight year old child. I cried for about four days straight every night just crying myself to sleep thinking, what do you do with that information? Because it's, I mean, where do you go with that kind of information? You can't say anything. But the interesting thing is like she did pass away, but it was many, we had 38 years of brilliant, beautiful friendship. And I often thought throughout the years, like, should I ever shared that dream. And when she got her diagnosis, it kind of felt there was no point to bring it up earlier, you know what I mean? Like, it was gonna be what it was going to be. And I've learned now to take these signs or dreams as a heads up as to sort of get myself prepared, and to be a better friend to show up better. So it's almost like changing my mindset of the way I frame it. Yeah,

Marlena  

yeah, I get that. I think that there's certain information that maybe as a psychic or medium that is given that maybe not necessarily needs to be put out there. Still makes me question like, Why did I receive certain information? But at the same time, it's like, yeah, no, not something. I want to just go and offer to some, sorry.

Jennifer D  

I mean, sometimes like you could tell that that has such spirit world has such a funny sense of humor. So I remember when my daughter was two, almost two and I I went to breastfeed a ghost

Marlena  

they were like, please, elaborate.

Jennifer D  

As any primary caregiver out there and Is that when you've got little ones in the house, she was so fatigued and so exhausted. And so I was asleep in my bed, and my youngest daughter was in her bed, and you heard the little pitter patter. And she was beside my bed. And so I just assumed that she had woken up for a nighttime feed. And so I went to reach to lift it into the bed with me. And as I looked, I'm like, Oh, that's not my daughter. It was a little girl.

Marlena  

Wow.

Jennifer D  

So it's like, you know, I had, I had fun. Instead, I just sort of sit there and go, Oh, okay. So what happens to me? When I see spirit, I see people like, as I see you right now. So the spirits that I see, are not transparent or anything like that they are solid looking people. And so I've been caught out quite a few times, not realizing the person is deceased. And, yeah, it's not until I stopped communicating. And I realized that I'm, I'm hearing them in my thoughts, or in my ears, and their mouth is not moving. That's the only way that I know that they're not actually of the living world. So with this little girl, it was quite funny because my eldest daughter used to often play with this little child that I see, I couldn't see her at the time. And my daughter was explained that she had this blonde hair and the clothes that she wore, so she was from a period away before. And so I just sort of went along with my daughter and thought, you know, you just entertained and it's, it's cute, that they have those imaginary friends until you go to breastfeed them. And then it's in my hometown, I've got a kickboxing instructor. And she's amazing. And so we were training one day, and we're running the length of this beautiful beach in Wollongong in New South Wales. And I ran past a fisherman with his dog. And I'm a positive Pete so bright and early. I'm like, Oh, good morning, as I'm running past and he didn't respond. He didn't say good morning, and I'm like, oh, that rude burger. I finished the run. And I said to my kickboxing instructor, that guy like I started describing him with the dog. And I'm like, You didn't even say hello, like, how rude. And she's looking at me like, I've got two heads. And then she got on book that I'm far too familiar with on her face. And she goes, Jim, that's my Dodge. He actually died as a fisherman, this beach. And I'm like, all bored. So yeah, sometimes it can be a bit of like, what in bow? So So yeah, I was chatting away. And that's

Vince  

your choice, but just to be able to see those other beings and souls. That's such an incredible gift. And I mean, it's hard for me to process how much responsibility that is, as well. So I think you're doing an amazing job because you're, you're such a good person and the way you've described how you speak to people so that they transit and, and, and maybe to do this, and it's very, about their feelings, and then the way they think about things. So you're doing amazing. Thank you, Vince.

Marlena  

And so on that note, we are running out of time. So I want to give you the opportunity. Just what would you like to leave our listeners with with regards to either mediumship or being a death doula? What would you like to leave our listeners with?

Jennifer D  

Well, what I'd like to say is that what people don't realize is that we need all sorts of people to be death, doulas. So, if you've ever considered to help in this industry, please do so like your personality, your lived experience is phenomenally needed. It's such a sense of purpose, feeling when you're working in this field, and to be welcoming to someone's family in this time, is, it's an honor. So I would encourage anyone to just look into it even if you're a little bit curious. And even with the mediumship join a circle, a psychic circle so you can hone into your gifts with supportive people. Yeah, there's lots of things out there. There's a thing called a death cafe, where people just meet up for coffee and talk about death, in a sense, where we're trying to dis like not make it so Do right? Yeah.

Marlena  

Well, that is wonderful. Jen, thank you so much for being on our show. Vincent, thank you so much for guest hosting. Thank you everybody for listening to this episode of a witch, a mystic and a feminist. Please go to our website WMF pod.com To look at past episodes or find out more information, and we will see you next week.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

doula, death, transition, personalities, dying, medium, client, life, dad, people, family, bit, pass, reiki master, beautiful, mediumship, thailand, soul, person, signs