Beyond Gender: Hayden's Path to Authenticity

Beyond Gender: Hayden's Path to Authenticity

Jamie  

Hello listeners and friends. Welcome to another episode of a witch, a mystic and a feminist podcast we are back. And today we have an amazing guest, who is so special to me that my heart is literally jumping outside myself to introduce this human. I know we do a lot of mystical magical episodes here with amazing guests that hold deep meaning to ourselves in our journeys. However, today, today we're going to dive into the life and the culture of the LGBTQ plus community. With a dear friend of mine, a dear friend of ours, we wanted to share the journey and the story of this amazing human being, and I'm so honored to have them on our show. We are not only allies of the community, but we are also part of the community in many ways. And we are so so very proud of that. It is important and necessary to share this story of self authenticity and self awareness of self love and respect for knowing who they are and where they fit into this world. It is my honor and privilege to introduce my dear friend and someone I consider family, student activist and all around amazing human being. Hayden Garbez, welcome to our show. So

Hayden  

Thank you for having me.

Jamie  

As we have already said in even in our mic checks and everything previous to recording, we're just so grateful for you to be here to share your story and your journey. I'm excited we are here to we can't wait to ask all the questions. So honestly, we really want to jump right into it. I know you have such a story and a journey to share that I think it is really important for our community, our listeners, people to hear and understand because this is our world today. And I'm so grateful that it is to be very honest, it should be. So I think your journey is something that needs to be heard. And I mean, let's just yeah, let's just let's just jump into it. Um, but yes, I mean, can you share a little bit about your personal journey of you know, self discovery and kind of coming into terms with your, your gender identity.

Hayden  

I was born on? Yeah. So I'll just introduce myself first, I suppose. Hello. My name is Hayden Garbez but my friends call me Hayes use whichever you prefer. I don't really mind. I mainly use like a them pronouns just because I think it's more fun to not be like confined into like a box. And I feel like I've gotten the most out of being more authentic and myself, I guess in that way. So that's usually what I use. But, surprise, surprise, I was born a girl. And so yeah, I was assigned female at birth and grew up socialized as a girl. And then I was like, always considered, I guess, like a tomboy, which was mainly it. You know, I would not for the life of me put on a skirt or dress until I was like 11 Somewhere around there was not my vibe. It was not my vibe, I think I remember for to be outside playing sports in my Spider Man costume Life was good. But then, you know, the one of preview bestens hit, and that's when really socially and like, around you or like in school and like middle school and all that is when gender really gets pushed more on you. And so because I was assigned female at birth, I was like, given kind of like societal expectations that were like being put on me. And I was just like, I don't know if that necessarily fits. And so I don't know I was struggling with that and struggling with also just like how I look and all that things. And I was like I would think I would maybe prefer to be more like masculine. And but then like it was a lot more deeper than that. I guess like I remember after Slidell like core memory when I was like five or something my grandpa gave me one of these little like prayer boxes or something like that. It was like a Native American wish dream box prayer thing. I don't really know what it's called. And I remember writing in that I would like to be a boy. And that was what I put in there when I was like five Batman. Wow. Yeah, yeah. And so I remember that fully. So that was always kind of like a thing, but I didn't know there was like a word for what that is. I Um, are like what that really meant? And so I don't know. Yeah, it was just kind of like little things like that growing up, I guess I could like point out specifically. And then I was like, woo 12. And like, in the middle of female puberty, and I was just like, No, no, no, please. But like said that to and I think every, everybody fully says that, but I guess just like, I don't know, to me it was a little bit different. I don't know how else to really explain it besides just being like, this is not right. And so I don't even really remember where I found the word transgender. But I genuinely cannot tell you. I think it might have been, like a Caitlyn Jenner interview, I think, because I came out in the early part of 2016, which was it was like a little bit right after she had come out and did like an interview with like Diane Sawyer or somebody like that. I remember seeing that. And I was just like, oh, that's a thing. Yes, that's the one. I don't know how to really explain that. But yeah, so it was I came out like a little bit less than a year after like, same sex marriage was legalized in America. So it was like a little bit early. I was 12 or 13. No, I think I was 12. I can't really remember the exact age. But it was like May of 2016. Somewhere around there. I wrote my mom a letter and I hit the letter. And I went to score and I said, Mom, there's a letter somewhere for you. Go read it. Because I don't know why I have such like trouble telling people like really big things to like their face. For some reason, even if it's not bad. I just I don't know why. I've got a little block on that. I don't know what that's about. But I was just like, yeah, so I wrote her a letter, I hit it in the kitchen, I said, go to this place in the kitchen. There is something for you whenever you want. And I don't know, it was like a couple of hours after, I guess she had maybe read it or something. Or after I sent that text. I was in school, I think it was like seventh grade or something like that. And I don't know, I just got a text being like, well, we'll always support you. And thank you for telling us it was very sweet. I was in science class just cry. Yeah, it was really sweet. But yeah, so that was I guess, kind of how I got to like the coming out stage. And then after that has been a time, man a time.

Christy  

Can you speak to any of that time challenges?

Hayden  

For sure. You know, being trans in middle school in Florida in high school is a rough year, if you want to, like look at like, how Florida is right now, specifically, it was like always kind of like that. But now it's just being accepted politically and legally. Basically, on the situation of Florida is just lots of discriminatory bands against people that are LGBTQ. They actually just pass something that affects all public schools, like public universities in Florida that if a faculty member uses the quote unquote, wrong bathroom as they like to describe it as that they are on the grounds to not be fired for it. Can you believe that? A full adult? Gosh, yeah. So

Jamie  

I just went to a restaurant the other day that had unisex bathrooms.

Hayden  

Yeah, so the Kansas City Airport has unisex bathrooms. This city they don't have single gender bathrooms. Just you just walk in there and it's just stalls with everybody. I know. But yeah, so it was really weird for me, I guess because I didn't really get bullied, which is a great thing. But I know a lot of people that did I think I was just I didn't interact with anybody in like the end of like middle school high school I was just so like hermit shell type of person. Not really the case anymore, but that's definitely how it was. I think it was all just mainly like stuff in my head that was making it rough. Granted, there was a lot of like in person out or exchange things that were not the best like I didn't have the best time with like the first therapist I had or like my endocrinologist or things like that. But when it comes to like school and stuff like no one really despite sounds bad but like no one really like talk to me because I didn't talk to them. I don't know, I didn't really crave really any like social interaction just because I was so uncomfortable with myself and being perceived by anybody else. So I just did it. But like I know that people knew but people didn't like, talk to me about it like transitioning because granted in middle school I was a girl and then I came into freshman year with like a legally changed first name looking completely different like all that stuff. It was tough. way like people knew, but weren't actually addressing it. When I came into high school people that I didn't even go to middle school with, with sometimes like, like, I remember this one time in study hall, this boy was sitting next to me and he didn't go to my middle school. But when I came into high school, like my first name was already legally changed. So there's no way he would have known like my birthday, but he just kept calling me over and over and over, in this class in a dead silent room. I'm like, what gives? But like, I don't know, but it was just like, more like microaggressions, I would have to say, or like things like that rather than like full fledge, like pulling, which, like, it's still not great. But it was definitely better than I know, a lot of people's other experiences were so I do recognize I was very lucky in that sense. And I have always just had like a pretty supportive bubble, whether that's like with my family, or people that I was close friends with, like, they were really accepting and like really fast, I don't know, like change, like some of their language and stuff and things like that. It was great. But I would have to say probably the more rough bits of discovering myself was having to go through like, the more like professionals system and stuff like that, because like, they were just obviously not very educated. And if they thought they were educated, they would have to say, probably, not really, so much. So yeah. But yeah, that's how I would touch on that.

Marlena  

Can we go into a little bit about the support system that you have, and you said that when you were about 12 years old, you wrote a letter to your mom. And so that opened up the conversation with your parents with regards to how you were feeling. And as a parent, my child is non binary and also goes by them. That's their pronouns. And when they told me, it was like, okay, and for me, just as the generation that I grew up in the whole day them, then it's still hard, but we got my head around. And how they expressed it to me is they don't feel seen when generalized is Is she her? And again, still generation and years of of that, wrapping my head around that, but sorry, I digress. Going back to your support system, and opening up that conversation, how did the conversation of transitioning go with your parents? How did that transpire?

Hayden  

Oh, it did not originally start off as a Okay, let's do this thing I would have to say, and this isn't me airing them out or anything, it just like they didn't know what that meant? So, like, how do you approach something that big when you don't even really know what it is? Yeah, I mean, like, just like how everybody else kind of like in my circle, they've had to grow a lot in that sense. And like understanding this, like new piece of information and working with that. So it's very thankful for them to, you know, be willing to do that. Because a lot of people's parents just don't, they just don't touch that. And they say, you could figure that out when you move out. When you're 18. That's the thing. So like, I knew that they were obviously gonna, like kick me out of the house or anything, because that's not who my parents are. Like, they've always been pretty, like accepting at the LGBTQ community, like very much so. And so. But yeah, so like, I wrote the letter, and like, we didn't talk about it, I don't think for a while. Because like, well, to be honest, I will also put in here that I don't have a really good memory of that time, my brain kind of blocked a lot of things out around that time. So I don't really have the best memory when it comes to like, I don't know, like I just said 11 to 14, it's a little bit like, but from what I do, remember, I don't think we talked about it for a while. But then when we did, it was like a very, like, serious, late night conversation, lots of crying lots of just being like, well, we need to know exactly how you're feeling. And I'm like, I don't know, like, it was just like, I don't know, exactly, I don't know, it was just like a very gut feeling type of thing, where it's just like, you can't really place it too well into words, but like, you know, you know what I mean? It was just like, okay, just like how growing up was for me and my experiences and how I saw myself versus how others saw me was always very different. And so that's kind of where I was coming from mainly on that. But yeah, so like, when we did finally have a conversation talk about it, it was like, okay, so we need to like, because they didn't have the resources because granted, it was 2016. And while that doesn't sound like a long time ago, when it comes to like progress and like the trans community, that was a very early time, right? It was very early. So you know, it was like Okay, so we should probably go talk to like your pediatrician and see if they have resources. So we went to go like see her. As she was not educated in the slightest. That woman sent me to a conversion therapist, and that was it. Hi, um, and I have, I only went for one session because I walked out of there being like, this was not what we thought it was, like, I walked in there, and there's just crosses everywhere. And all of her questions about how I see myself her questions, were basically just around like, so how do you think God will see this? I'm just like, I don't know. How am I supposed to know that? That's yeah, it was basically just like, Well, what do you say to like people that say, Well, God made you this way. And I'm just like, made you as a girl. So you have to stay girl because God made you that way. And I was just like, I'm 12. I don't know. Yeah, and like, I didn't, either. So I didn't really have context for that type of thing. Yeah, it was just so weird. Now, like they're being like, this was not it. Now, when you go find someone else. And then we didn't go see someone for like, another like two years after that, because we were just like, Well, that didn't work. Then, I don't know, it was kind of like a catch 22 That my anxiety kept growing just in general, not even related to like my gender identity, but just with so many other things as well, to where I had to go see like an anxiety specialist psychologist when I was like 14, and luckily, she was also well versed in that arena. So shout out to Dr. Laurie. Yeah, so and then, then when I met her things started to get a bit better, because she actually knew what she was talking about, and wasn't trying to change anything, just trying to make me more like, expand my brain, I guess, to kind of see how I'm feeling and in what ways and how she could be of assistance and all that. Like, she was the one that ended up like years later writing like my letters to start, like hormone therapy or to get like top surgery, stuff like that, like we love.

Jamie  

Yes, yeah, yeah. Dr. Laurie?

Marlena  

Did you and your parents have to go to therapy together before or transition? Like is that something that you kind

Hayden  

No like what I was like saying earlier during like the the mic tests, like, I can't have anybody listening to me when I'm spilling my guts out, like

Jamie  

at least not while it's happening just later when

Hayden  

you can find out. But until that was not how it was working. Yeah, it was never like one offer to us. And to like, we've always had pretty good communication, I feel like as a family, so it wasn't really needed. And there wasn't like any reactions going on at all to where like it was like required, because they were accepting usually I have heard that, like, people's parents aren't too accepting, like, they will have like a group session together to see where each side is coming from. But we were on pretty much the same page to where I just really wasn't needed, which was cool, I guess. But. But yeah, so it wasn't like a group situation. But it was something that I would do. And like, it was definitely a more, I guess, like individual journey because I was also in like, a medical setting psychologist office to where there was also like the HIPAA laws, so like, even if like your minor, they can't really tell your parents what you're being talking about. So, right. So because of that, I would just anything that I felt like I needed to tell them I would tell them, but besides that it was basically a me thing.

Jamie  

I just wanted to chime in real quick listening to this Hayden and I've known your parents before you were in the womb. And I when this was going on, and you guys had already left you're already in Florida. So I'm not seeing your mom on a daily your dad, you know, me and Chad and everyone, we all kind of separated from the auction and and I never I guess I want to phrase this right. I never doubted them. I never thought they wouldn't be supportive. But to see how much love and care and thoughts and questions and acceptance that went into this. For sure, it touched me so much. And I know it was a struggle for everyone. You know, this is a big thing for your parents. It's a huge thing for you. They were just amazing. And to see that type of acceptance and love and support during such a young age. You know, you're like you said it was junior high, you know a lot of parents some that up to phase, they'll go out of it. You know, they'll move on that they don't even know you know what they want. They're going through puberty right now like how are they going to make these big decisions and your parents were always so and still so supportive. It just I kept thinking you know if this was my kid you and our son are what like a year apart? No, like a year apart you guys but yeah, but I remember a picture to like see, but I just remember thinking like what if this happen Ben's as our children grow up, and I just so much support and love and acceptance from your parents that I wish and hope that every kid who goes through these questions could have that kind of support. So shout out to Dr. Laurie shout out to your parents. They are the ultimate support system. So round of applause.

Marlena  

So I have all the questions. I really do hope I don't come off insensitive. I just, I'm just curious. So were there any times when, before you started your transition that you ever questioned yourself in that? Am I doing the right thing? Am I making the right decision? Should I be doing this? Should I wait? Because you were so young?

Hayden  

I know. Like, yeah, no, because no, that's fantastic, though. It was to be completely blunt, it came down to like, we go with this and we transition or like, it was just that bad. Like, okay, to be honest with you. I was very also like, depressed at the time, too. And so it was, it was definitely an either like, either or situation. And like, all we knew it was, we're doing this on that side, I guess, to explain it better, right. And so, I know, you get a lot of people like telling you, especially when you're young, and you're doing something like that, and like just trying to become like a more truer version of yourself. But people don't really see it as that. I mean, obviously, granted, a lot of people do see it as that. But there's still a good chunk of the population that just don't they see it as just like a trendy type of thing, even though like gender diverse people have been around since like, ever. Yeah, or just like LGBTQ people as a whole. Like, we have the history for it. There's so many different lovely stories of people that are gender diverse, that have made history throughout all of history, but it just got wiped from, I guess, the books or wasn't put into the history books, so people didn't know about it. Now, of course it wasn't. And so yeah, a lot of people saw it as like a trend type of thing. And like, I would see a lot of things on like social media from just like, either just like random pages or even like some of my family's post, kind of dissing the whole thing. Not about me personally, but just about the subject as a whole type of thing.

Marlena  

But did you take it personal? Yeah. Because again, for me, if I, if I were going through that, and someone in my family were to post something negative, it's like, to me, it's like shots fired. You're yanking me personally. Whether you seem to think that you're not that this is as a whole. You are attacking me.

Hayden  

No, exactly. And that's how I always felt. And like sometimes I would call them out on it a little bit. But then I was just usually met with like, well, good. I could post what I want to pose. We all have different opinions. And I'm just like, but, but But

Christy  

yeah, but

Hayden  

do you not understand how this intertwines? And like how I don't know about make your family member feel just a curiosity. But yeah, so I would say things like that. And like I would take it pretty personally, obviously, granted, because I was 13. And when you're 13 you take everything personally, even if it's not about you to be honest. Like that's just because everything is

Christy  

about you. Yeah. Team

Hayden  

Wild age. But yeah, so like, I would definitely take a lot of things personally, some things granted that I should have and then some was just like, it's a given a take. But yeah, just overall, I guess to jump back to the original point, because I love to run off on different tangents. Now it was, yeah, I'm like trying to figure out where we started with. Like point A, I'm on point E or something like that. We love that. Because like basically like going back to it because I saw a lot of people saying things just like, they're gonna regret this when they're 50 and can't have children or anything like that. So I'm just like, that's not true one. And then also just like, it's right. Like, I don't even have a word for that. But it was just like, you aren't in someone else's head stop acting like you know what they're experiencing?

Christy  

Yeah. Like you said, you had a gut feeling of like, Yeah, this is truly right. So it makes me wonder, like, have they never had a gut feeling of like, this is not for me, or this is for me either way. Right?

Hayden  

Exactly. Because I was I was like five writing things like that in little boxes, right? I think I know.

Christy  

Yeah, you are the only one that knows you. Yeah, we're

Hayden  

exactly. Everyone's the only person that actually truly knows yourself. Even then sometimes you don't even know really who we are. But you're gonna have to to test some things out, try to get to that level.

Marlena  

Yeah. So again, I apologize if I come off insensitive. I'm just like, I have all these questions over my head.

Hayden  

Yeah, that's where I love to tell people, I am the exact same way. I would just say you don't have to overthink anything, or like worry about being insensitive, because there's only one way to find out, you know, things I like I personally anymore. Don't take a lot of things personally. I've moved past that stage in my life. So like,

Marlena  

ask away. But I really appreciate your openness and willingness to answer the questions that we have. So thank you. Okay, so going into like, the medical portion of the transition, was it hormone therapy? That because I have no idea?

Hayden  

Yeah. Um, so it's called hormone replacement therapy, which basically, it's mostly like irreversible changes. But there are some reversible things, if you like went off of it. I did start it pretty young. But that's literally just because like I had said before, it was like, either we get going on this thing, or like, I don't know, I don't know how to like phrase that right. But it was just like, so strong in myself for I was just like, I know, this is the right thing. I know, I'm not gonna regret this. Everyone else is going through puberty right now. Why can't I like, granted, I already was but like the right puberty, the one that felt more like, what I should be doing, or things like that. So I granted I did start it when I was, it was in 2008. Teen. So I think I was almost 15. So it was early on. And I recognize that. But it's not a bad thing. Because I think a lot of people think that, Oh, you shouldn't put children on puberty blockers or like you shouldn't put them on hormone replacement therapy because of XYZ. And I'm just like, you understand that, like, if a kid really feels the need to do that. It's usually out of like, dire desperation to be themselves or whilst they're gonna kick the bucket. That's just literally how it is. And I feel like people need to understand that more and like, be more open to talking about that. Because a lot of people just think it's just like a choice that parents are coercing their kids into doing because the kid maybe said something, and they want to be like, what the times or whatever. I've seen so many things about that on the internet, versus like, oh, the parents, it's the parents fault. They're doing this? And I'm just like, No, it's not. But yeah, so I had to get, I had to get a letter from my psychologist to even get an appointment, like the first appointment with the endocrinologist that was specializing in that. So you had to go through a lot of avenues to even get an appointment. And then even after you get the appointment, you have to get an evaluation by the endocrinologist and the endocrinologist his team. Just like endocrinologist, just like the doctor that does the hormones, I guess, the endocrine system in your body, it's where who secrete your hormones. And so they had the specialty in that and some of them are like, somewhat or like actually specialized in like treating trans people. So I had to get the letter from the psychologist to go then see him and then I had to go see him and then get an evaluation from him and then go back to the psychologist to be like, This is what he said. And then she had to sign off on it in order to do that. Just a lot of hoops

Christy  

for that. And and at that time in Florida. I mean, I'm imagining there wasn't a lot of medical professionals or maybe I'm mistaken.

Hayden  

Yeah, there was like, three in my county that I knew of that actually did that. And I lived in like the biggest, the second biggest county in the state. I think in Broward County, you're closer

to the south and the Florida, which is more diverse. And there's only Yeah,

Hayden  

exactly. And granted, luckily, I was able to do all this before all the laws banning it kind of put it into place because I didn't really know about it. And then before it got, like, politicized it was just something that was actually dealt with medical professionals, which was how it should be. Yeah, I feel like if you're going to make a decision like that, especially if you're under the age of 18 You should only be consulting medical professionals or not politicians, but you know,

Jamie  

yeah, shouldn't be political. A lot of

Hayden  

this is please yeah, so yeah. And then I had to go see him. And it was a traumatic time. I don't like him. Yeah.

Christy  

No, shout out.

Hayden  

No, shout out for no shadow. Exactly. Um, I had so many issues with this man granted heat did help me start, like on hormones. And he was like my only provider for that until I was 18. I think I stopped seeing him when I was 18. Something like that like in person, because this man was weird. Let's put it that way. Like I had a couple of friends, I also went to go see him too. And he was also very odd. And then I had some other friends that went to go see a different endocrinologist. And they didn't have any bad experiences. I don't even really know how to like, put this bluntly, but he was the type because granted, his office was in like a training Children's Hospital, like a teaching Children's Hospital. So people that were in like med school, they would go to this hospital to kind of learn how to do the residency and all that stuff. But his like, one of his requirements to starting hormones was like, a full body exam, which no other endocrinologist actually does, it turns out he would say he would do one thing, and then just another with multiple people in the room. So I was just like, don't like him. I won't get into the disturbing details of that exam. But yeah, he did that to other people that I knew too. And then we would like talk to our other friends that were saying different endocrinologist about, you know, the exam. And they were always so confused. They're like, that's not a thing that they did. But we were told it was a required thing to get onto. Hormones wasn't the case.

Jamie  

Not quite sure. I understand why the requirements. So that is very,

Hayden  

yeah, I was like, How come no one else is doing this. And I was just so uncomfortable with him for that reason, and so many other reasons. He just had no also like, understanding of personal boundaries, or like, things that are normal to ask like he would he was just really curious about, like, the trans youth body, which was horrifying. Definitely shouldn't have his licensing, like registration, lice, or whatever it's called. But like the thing that doctors have them make them doctors. But the board on the board, yeah, now? No, but there was a lot of other great ones in the area. I'm glad that my friends got to see that I I saw him instead, which was like, I don't know, it was just it would be so much work to try to go to another doctor for that too. Yeah, because the system, the system is so ridiculously hard to get through, especially if you're under 18. Even if you're over 18 It's a lot harder than I feel like it should be. Because like I fully understand going to like see a psychologist first. And so like it's also just good because like it causes you so much anxiety and depression and so much other related like social trauma, you should be going to see a therapist, I feel like because like there's no harm in talking to somebody if you have the right somebody to talk to granted because there's a lot of therapists, like I said before, my first psychologist or therapist or whatever she was, was definitely not the vibe. But I definitely it doesn't hurt. And I feel like I don't know, mental health is so stigmatized, especially for children. Yeah. And so right, like people, like you say like, oh, to say out loud, like your kids in therapy, a lot of people kind of like cringe at that. But I'm just like, it's, it's okay, I promise. Like, it's a good thing. Like, a lot of great things can come out of that. And like you can get a way better, like understanding of like, yourself and how like the world is around you. And I know it's really helped me a lot. And I know a lot of other friends of mine that were like in therapy as a kid that really helped them to be like the person who they are today. But as long as it's like a supportive therapist, because some people go to medical professionals where it just makes them feel worse. And that's like, yeah, I don't really count. Yeah, exactly. I've

Marlena  

I've had that experience with therapists as well as as Yeah, my child so I understand exactly what you're saying. And, you know, some therapists just aren't it for you as a person.

Hayden  

It takes a while to to connect with someone exactly like the only therapist I've actually really connected to is the one I saw when I was 14. But then like some things happened, where I like I couldn't go see her anymore or whatever. And since then I've tried to get like in and out of therapy for the last five ish years and I still haven't found another person like her like it's seriously like a real like, trial and error type of situation. But when you do find the right person, oh my so many good things come out of that and I feel like

Jamie  

life change Talking about that exact changing, we should talk about are you so do you have to continue to take hormones for the rest of your life or is it uh,

Hayden  

um, so I've actually been off of hormones for the past year and a half. I was just like, always, kind of just in it, like, I never wanted to be on it for my whole life, I just wanted to get the changes out of it that I felt best suited. Like, they inside me on the outside me too, again, to kind of match it up a bit better. So it was never something I really like wanted to do for the rest of my life. I just knew like, at some point in the next like, handful of years, I would like stop it when I was good with that, just because I, I don't know, I was on it for four years, I think. And, you know, got everything I wanted out of that. But I was also in so much pain, because I could only I only had the option to me to do the injections for that. And when you do it for four years, and there's only certain spots, you could do it. And because there's two different types of, there's only two different types of injections you could do for hormones, or just injections. In general, there's like subcutaneous, which is under the skin, or there's like intramuscular, which is in the muscle. But mine was always subcutaneous. So it was always right under the skin, but that creates so much scar tissue. And so and there's only a certain amount of spots where I could do it, because like, I just didn't have, I guess just like that much fat on my body. So like I had to find certain places to where it would work. But when you do it in the same spot every single week for four years, that hurts after a certain amount of like scar tissue build up. And I was just like, Well, I'm happy with how I look. I'm comfortable and myself. I am great. Continuing on in this world. And this hurts. So I think I'm good. Basically how that decision went down in my head. Granted, I didn't go off of it the right way. You should do this with a medical professional. There's a chance I did it. I would highly recommend not to do that. It was fine for me. But I know for a lot of people quitting something cold turkey like that is no black. Don't do it. Yeah, highly recommend against it. I was just 19 and fed up. Yeah, and plus, I had just gotten so like, spacey I guess with when I was doing my injections, I was supposed to be doing it. Like, I think every other week was my thing. Like every two weeks, I would do one. Um, but I just genuinely because I was now happy with myself and didn't really feel like I needed anything more, which is lovely. But that also means that I forgot that I had to do them at certain times. So there's be like, they were just so all over the place and like it was not good.

Marlena  

So you did kind of wean yourself off.

Hayden  

That makes me feel a lot better. We're gonna go off of it, subconsciously.

Jamie  

Because every once in a while they were like, Oh, yeah.

Hayden  

Drawn bathroom be like, Oh, well, it's it's been a month. And I just stopped.

Marlena  

Do you feel that? Like, if you feel later that you may need more hormone therapy? Will you go back on it? Like, is that something?

Hayden  

You definitely can, yeah, you're allowed to go on and off. Granted, I wouldn't recommend doing that so often, just because your hormone levels also control how your like brain works and could really cause like, a lot of anxiety and depression. If your hormones are always up and down all over the place. That could do some real damage in your brain. But like, I'm like I could I don't see myself doing it though. Okay, just personally, I think the upset. Awesome.

Jamie  

So there's also other procedures. Yeah, that can be an option for a person who identifies as transgender to progress along their journey. Have there been other procedures that you have gone through you want to

Hayden  

discuss only been through like, yeah, I've only been through like one other I got top surgery which is basically just a double mastectomy that's done more under like a plastic surgeon rather than like a Ooh, what's it called? Most people that obviously get mistaken these are people that are diagnosed with breast cancer. So I don't know what that doctor is a call that deals with cancer oncology and I'm calling an oncologist. So I know sometimes a lot of those procedures are done with like an oncologist specialists for that to make sure that they I actually get like the cancer out. But for me, I had to go through more of like a plastic surgeon type of route. Just because it was, I guess, while for me it was medically necessary at that point. It was still seen as like a cosmetic procedure. Like,

Christy  

which I don't even know it was medically net. Yeah.

Hayden  

Like, even my psychologist was just like this needs to happen. Like, like, Yeah, well, obviously she didn't say that. First. I said it first. And then she did her doctor stuff. I was just like, Yes, this is probably the best route of medical treatment, because it was seen more. For me at least it was just the things that I like, went through medically were just out of necessity, and was mainly done under the supervision of medical professionals. And so she decided that was also medically necessary. And that was a crazy journey to get that signed off. Oh, my goodness. Because not only I was going to as well, because not only how hard is very well, because again, I was also young. For me, I guess I got it when I was almost 16. So I was 15, which I know a lot of people go, Oh, that is way too young. For like, like we like we talked about before, you should wait until you're 18 type of thing. But it was, as I said before, medically necessary. And I don't regret it one bit. And it's five years later. So I think we're good here I think we did the right option. Because I was just like so miserable. And like I remember something my dad said right when they got the final sign off that this was happening thing he said he noticed a change of behavior almost instantly, which was cool. Going from very like down in the dumps the press saying in my room the whole day because I'm so self conscious for even my family to see me to being like, hello, like eating more like cheerful I guess just kind of which is cool. But the actual process to get to that, oh, wild. It was basically kind of like the same with like the endocrinologist thing of having to first get the letter from a psychologist again, go see the plastic surgeon to then go back to the psychologist to get the check off on his signature so that there's clear communication between the mental health and the physical health kind of levels and things I guess. And then once you like, then had like your consultation with the surgeon,

Jamie  

I'm actually really glad that the psychological piece Yeah, mental piece of it has been there in every step. Because I think for anyone, you really want to make sure this is what you want to do not I mean, you could always get implants later if you decided to go back. But I was just really curious how involved a god because in my brain breasts, while they're important, have a function later in life. And if you don't need it for that possible function later, then to me it's like a my body my choice. I shouldn't be an issue for you. But I am glad to hear that they are, you know, making sure that mentally you're not only prepared to make this decision, but physically you're ready to accept what's going to happen. So because

Hayden  

it's a big change, and it's important. Yeah, but yeah, no, I completely agree. I think it could be a little bit easier. Yeah, personally, I don't think they needed to do everything that they did. Just like there was it took it took so long from just getting like the first part of the psychologists being like okay, to the actually getting the surgery, it took quite a bit. I don't remember the exact timeframe. But I remember like I had to give you like an idea I had my consultation I think sometime in the very beginning of February in 2019. And then my surgery was until like middle of June like as granted that's pretty fast. I know sometimes the waitlist for doing that can stretch up to like years, especially in like other countries to like, why the in my personal opinion, the American health care system sucks is definitely a lot of it is in some ways better than other countries. It's especially when it comes to a wait list for like gender identity related procedures. Because like with how our healthcare system works versus for instance, like what I've seen most of us have trans content creators and like England And so they have like a public health care system. But they also can go through other agencies privately, which costs a lot more money. And you can't I don't think use insurance with that. But publicly, it's like, technically it would be free. But right now the waitlist to get like top surgery on like the public system in England, last I saw was about like five to eight years. Oh, wow. So that's a long time, it literally could be the difference for someone between like life and death. Because like literally if Yeah, right. Like, before you even get onto the waitlist to get surgery. That's like the part that comes after the waitlist to get a consultation, which usually takes about one to two years. And that's all if you're above 18 for if you're under 18. That's a whole different story to this like twice as long. Because there's like, not that many medical professionals that like know too much about it, to be able to take it on with like ethical care and like due diligence. Right. So me waiting a handful of months, honestly, it wasn't that bad. But like it can for a lot of people go a lot faster than that. Right. So like, I'm not in any way complaining because it could be what's happening over in England right now. But it still took like a long time. Like from

Marlena  

well, I mean, even for, for my husband just to get hip surgery took about four or five my exact like of scheduling. And yeah, so to me, it sounds like it went fairly quick. Yeah. But at the same time, like you said, it's between like, yeah, there's a mental aspect to that. And that I don't know if they're taking that into consideration. Exactly.

Hayden  

Yeah. And like I went to go see in plantation, Florida, Dr. Russell society, which is like one of like the top top surgeons in America. So I was really lucky to live like 15 minutes from his office. Just great for me. Because a lot of people literally fly from like all over like the country and all over the world to go see this guy. But he was just in my backyard. So I was luckily able to go see him. And he was fantastic. I would recommend he he

Jamie  

shout out shout out.

Hayden  

Lovely man. There's my resource for anybody that would like my recommendation, I would say probably him, because he like not only produces like really great aesthetic results, but he's also just a really kind man. He's very quiet, but like, in a sweet way. Describe it like he has a good energy to him. Which was nice. But yeah, it took in most of those months that I was waiting also was basically also with his office and my insurance company going back for oh, yeah, absolutely. They could cover and what they couldn't cover, because it's not listed as like a medical procedure. It's listed as like a cosmetic procedure insurance doesn't really cover it.

Jamie  

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Which picture big picture? They should? Should as your as your psychologist said, medically, yeah. So mental well being? Yeah,

Hayden  

like some insurance companies do cover that nowadays. But most don't, especially not when I was getting it, which was like only four years ago. But it's still, like I said before the timeline and progress for this specific issue is very early. Yes. Yeah. So it was just back and forth between psychologists surgeon surgeons office, his secretaries, the insurance company for just like it was so stressful. But yeah, it got done. Yeah. Yeah, it got done. And that was the only like, thing I've had and the only thing I plan on getting I'm pretty good with Yeah, with myself.

Marlena  

So mentally now, because you were in such a dark place prior to your transition, and you're in a much better place now. Yeah. You're and you're happy with yourself and with Oh, yeah. Who you are. Yeah,

Hayden  

I'm like a, I would say personally, and like, I've had this conversation with my parents too. Like I am a completely different person in the good way, which is always nice to hear very positive changes, right? Because like, like I said, Before, I was a complete hermit crab. Basically. I didn't go outside. I didn't talk to anybody. I had like, one or two friends do for like, seven years in school. Like I just wasn't, I didn't go to no clubs. I didn't talk in class. I didn't do none of that. Now I can't shut up. I'm happy about it. Like I know like in comparison to how like just like the difference between schooling from what say like eight Right. So like, last semester when I was in my second year of college, night and day, by day, yeah, that's great. Yes.

Marlena  

Speaking of college, I know Jamie wanted to get ready for this.

Jamie  

Well, I really before our time is up, and we do still have some more time I really wanted to touch on your advocacy work, your your experience at New College, which for everyone that maybe isn't up to date with the political nonsense happening in Florida. New College is more north, correct. It's more North Florida.

Hayden  

It is like middle Florida. It's in Sarasota, Florida, middle Florida, which is about an hour south of Tampa, and about an hour and a half west of Orlando,

Jamie  

that's I remember, when your mom comes out, you know, I mean, I have the picture of you on our fridge with your new college t shirt on, you've been accepted. And you were so excited to find this school because they are smaller, very, and they do focus. There's a big part of the school that has the divert Well, had the diverse past tense nowadays program. So I did want to touch on that, because that's a huge part of your advocacy work for the communities. So tell us a little bit about your experience at New College. Sure.

Hayden  

So new College of Florida is a Florida's only public liberal arts Honors College. So there's a lot of things going into that school. So it's public, which means that tuition is really low and accessible for a lot of students in the state of Florida. They're also an Honors College. So they have higher level academics, we don't have too many introduction classes, they just kind of expect you to know that usually, honors colleges tend to be like the kids that take AP classes and high school, just people that are very focused on the academics and college rather than everything else that goes into college. We were not a sport school, I guess, kinda we are now and I'll get into that because it grinds my gears. It's also liberal arts school. So it was very unique in that way in which we didn't have grades, which I know surprises a lot of people when I say that, but hold on. We didn't have grades, but we did have something called a narrative evaluation. So instead of at the very end of the semester, when you get your final quote unquote grade for a class, which is literally just a single letter that tells you not much about what you did, in that class, at the end of every semester, we would get like three to five paragraphs from each professor, instead of what you did well, what you need more help on resources to find where you can grow in the field that you are in. We had a It was basically a pass fail system type of thing, though, instead of grades, so it was passed fail with a narrative valuation, which told me so much more in one semester than a whole four years worth of like English and right in high school. So we didn't have grades. So that was the one part of the liberal arts part. And also the fact that we didn't have majors we had areas of concentration. So you would be getting like a Bachelors of Arts in liberal arts degree. But your degree would also say what you concentrated in for that liberal arts degree. And it could literally be whatever you want, which is great. So you're not confined to like, you have to take all these classes plus, like the basic fundamental classes. Like if you're like an art student, you don't have to take like, college calculus or something like that. Because what's that gonna do for you? Okay, that type of thing, which was pretty cool. It

Marlena  

sounds like a wonderful college. Oh, yes.

Hayden  

It was literally like America's little hidden gem we produced out of our School of 600 kids, literally 600 people and like, only 450 or somewhere of those lived on campus like it was a small school. We produce them most like Fulbright scholars at any other college in the nation, because we are so like academically focused, really succeed. And we really pressed on finding new research and new ways of doing things like really harnessing like innovation spirit, which was really great. I'm very proud to have gone there for when I did, but spoiler alert, I had to transfer out from this lovely little school that I found. Because fascism, basically, I don't know really how us but that's literally what has happened. So yeah, our school has always been really quirky. We started out in the year 1960. And new college students have always been activist so not only have As they've just been such a strong focus on academics, but also what you're doing for your social community, which was lovely. For instance, like during the segregation and desegregation era, in Sarasota, Florida, New College students really took the charge on desegregating Sarasota. There was a moment when they finally started to desegregate the schools, and African American kids going into like white schools. And a lot of the teachers apparently, in Sarasota at the formerly white only schools quit, because they were being desegregated. And so for instance, like new college students, they went to go teach at those schools while they're being students so that everyone could have an education. Or they used to do like this protests in the 60s and 70s. On waiting in the ocean, because we were right on Sarasota Bay, or like the beach, I guess, coastline. And, you know, they had segregated beaches, but they would cross that boundary and just go have a swim with everybody. And you know, get arrested, obviously, while doing that, but just taking the charge and trying to desegregate that area of Florida. And so that's kind of how new college students started out. And that's how we've always kind of been very prominent in like the peace rights movement, or during like the Vietnam War, or like the women's rights movements, always going to DC to like, protests and stuff like that. So we've always been very social, like activist, and definitely not the quiet type of sort. And so it's always just kind of been known. And our school is also very queer. Like, there's like the predominant student population that is a part of like the LGBTQ community. I honestly, am not saying this to be funny, I really didn't know any sure like, like a handful of straight people at New College, it was just like, it was basically just like the queer safe haven of Florida schools. And so that's how that school was. And then Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, found out about all of this, and was not having it. And on January 6, he chose that day in particular, the insurrection date in American history. On January 6 of this year, he decided to overflow our Board of Trustees with his far right allies and his personal friends. The Board of Trustees at colleges basically make most of the decisions for what happens at that school. We never really had any issues with Board of Trustees. While our school has always been very, I would say more like democratically liberal, progressive type of school, our Board of Trustees has always been fairly conservative, but nothing like what they're doing now. They're more like fiscal conservatives. But now we're talking people that are literally friends proudly with some members of the proud boys type of people on our board now, since January at New College, they completely closed down our diversity, equity and inclusion, our dei office, which supplied a lot of scholarships to students that were going to that school, but just because of the name that it had, it was immediately taken down and they fired our chief dei officer without cause. And Z is like gender non conforming, and very outwardly and proudly so and so that wasn't reason enough for them to get fired. And they fired our first female college president, also really without cause they also fired are very outwardly proud gay librarian, seemingly also without cause. They have basically just shut down anything that ever is just in any way seen as inclusive or progressive. They don't even believe in the term dei because they think that's quote unquote, racist, because you're favoring minority students over white students, which literally makes no sense whatsoever. So you know, that whole, like racism against white people type of thing is basically what they're aiming at, or like prioritizing. Like, it was just so crazy. And I'm at New College. I had been very active in my community. In this past semester for the student government. I was the co chair of diversity, equity and inclusion. So I worked very closely with that department that was shut down. I had also been this past semester, the residential advisor, select the RA for our queer Hall, like our dormitory that housed mainly well again, like I said before, like most of the school is LGBTQ, but I basically was in charge of running the hall that did the program. aiming for those students that wanted to live in that type of space that focused on events that were available to them in that type of way. So I was an RA for that dorm. And then in the past, prior to the semester, I had been the president and past vice president for the queer club, and also the CO president, for our Hello, group on campus. And yeah, so safe to say my job got a little bit tricky this semester, because they also shut down the pride dorm. But that's a funny story, really, because yeah, so in June, after everybody had left campus, they change the pride dorm. So pride dorm was basically a part of this group called LLCs. So they're called Living Learning Communities. So it was specific residential halls on campus that had a theme to them. And that had more programming specific to that theme if you lived in that hall, rather than just regular boarding. And in June, we noticed on the website, the new College of Florida website, that they had changed the name of pride Hall, but they hadn't changed any other dorm. On there, they changed it to the great books, or great works hall or whatever, which is basically them trying to go back like because the new administration that new college is really trying to stride and take on this whole, like prioritizing Western classics, civilization type of thing, just like, you know, white history, basically, yes, their new thing. And so that's what that dorm was going to actually be turned into was something focusing on Western Civilization classic novels or something like that, which makes no sense because we have like a writing and reading dorm already. So that didn't really make sense to begin with. But also the fact that they knowingly, like changed the outwardly gay Hall. Yeah, but no other Hall. And yeah, eventually, they just ended up shutting down all of the LLCs last month because I ran into a housing issue, because they are kept pushing this thing like, Oh, we're gonna bring in the most enrollment that new college has ever seen. Completely lowered the acceptance standards to get in our school is now basically half made up of like, white Christian male students that play sports because they're trying to turn new college into a sport school, make it have like, frat houses and all that basically turn to like us or FSU need

Jamie  

another one otherwise not enough of them in this country,

Hayden  

though. Exactly. So they're trying to turn it into like the next like liberal arts, FSU, or UF or something like that. And so, you know, you still need to have like a 3.5 GPA, at least to get into new college, and now they're making it like 2.5. So it's not even like an honors college anymore. It's just a public Florida College. Now that's like under the guise of Liberal Arts. They last month even decided they were going to start the process to terminate the Gender Studies Department. Ah, yeah,

Jamie  

I remember you told me

Hayden  

I was like, can you believe what all this stuff is happening? Because it's literally like, they also say it for real. Like, they pass like some other laws in Florida that like, you can't teach anything that is basically about it obviously didn't read it like this, because it would have been obviously, illegal. They do a lot of things that are illegal, but they haven't really been caught for quite yet. But like, you can't teach about race or gender or sexuality, or if you have a different religion than Christianity, like Judaism, or Islam, or things like that, like if it's like, teaching about like real history and like support of a minority group, essentially, in Florida, you can't do any more at a public university. To give you an idea, so it's a

Jamie  

ridiculous member that I think I sent it to you and your mom from Instagram. The last one I saw was DeSantis was pushing for the schools to teach about slavery. How it taught African Americans work ethics. Yeah. So it gave them skills. Yeah. So they should look at it as a benefit. Yeah. Public. This is the crazy man in Florida.

Hayden  

Yeah. public middle school teachers are required to teach us slavery had some benefits. Keep leave that. Yeah. I'm like under what

Jamie  

they got? Yeah. They were taught working skills. Yeah. Our elementary kids are going to or not ours, but the ones in Florida and learn that.

Hayden  

Yeah. The ones coming into it. They have to learn accessor Yeah. But basically what they're doing to new college essentially, is it's supposed to be something that the Census cannot use for his presidential campaign, basically, to show that exactly. We made this real A queer, progressive, democratic or like how he likes to say, our communist socialist school or whatever like that there was air quotes on that. That he can turn it into, like, whatever he's trying to make it basically and just be like, Look what I can do. I can do this for all public universities. If you elect me, that's basically what he's doing. But it's just so where are you now? Indiana? I have decided to take a gap semester, I was supposed to transfer to a school in New York, Sir Lawrence. I had a couple friends, I went there. And so I was supposed to go there because I got accepted. And they gave me a full ride. And so I was just like, Yes, let's go. But then I had a moment in July, where I was just realized and probably can't determines how emotionally beat I was. And that I need to, I need to put a pause on this for a moment, because that was such a taxing couple of months. Because I with the jobs that I held, I was like, literally, like we were all on the frontlines for that fight that was happening for educational freedom. Because we were a public arts school that was now being told what we can and cannot study, which I mean, if you look at the history books, basically what that ends up turning into when you tell people what they can't read anymore, or things like that, it goes down a very dark path in human rights history.

Jamie  

And also for those who aren't in Florida, and maybe, you know, don't watch the news a whole lot. There was a lot of media. Oh, my gosh, we're being contacted by a lot of reporters, every day ad the work you were trying to do with the advocacy and you know, protesting and doing this, but the media circus around this. So you are getting called

Hayden  

Jaime? Yeah, it was insane. I could

Jamie  

understand why you need a break. Exactly. Because right,

Hayden  

mind you all of this was happening. While we were still supposed to be going to our classes. While we are still supposed to be doing our midterms or finals, some people graduating that semester having to do their thesis project. Because at New College, you're required as a senior to do a senior project thesis, which is basically writing a book on something that you've decided to research and do. Alongside of a handful of faculty members. Yeah, they denied also all of our faculty that was up for tenure this year, they denied them tenure, which basically means now they have like, to be fair, these faculty were up a year early, which should also say something that if you're able to meet your tenure requirements a year early, like you're pretty golden. Yeah, he's we're very, like diverse individuals. And they denied them all tenure, which basically means they can reapply next year. But most of them are leaving because it basically just show them that they're not wanted and that they're probably not going to get tenure again next year. And basically, tenure for professors is like if you go up for tenure, and you are denied tenure, you have one year left at that school before you are forced to leave as basically how that is. And so yeah, new college was such a small, quiet campus. And when I tell you, every day our school is surrounded by like, police from not even campus police but outward city police. Just news reporter everywhere CNN go on up to everybody, like Fox was there a couple of times MSNBC, like there was a lot of people there, like New York Post I spoke to a couple of times, was getting reached out a lot too, because of my position as co chair of the EI, especially when they close the DEI office, people were like, wow, how are you guys proceeding. And I was just like, I don't know, none of us expected this, we had so many plans, like my fellow co chair and I for that semester, that just totally just we were not able to do anymore. Because it went from let's see what fun celebratory events we can put on for our students to get them through this last little part of the academic year. Because it's a very, like hard, rigorous academic school to go to so we're just like, we need to do like uplifting stuff. We were really focusing on community advocacy and like, really spreading like, joy of like each identity. And it changed that from going from okay, what joy based activities and events can we put on for these fellow students to then just like, Okay, how do we make sure we are able to even support students now without literally any resources anymore? Because like, that's how we're gonna put on those events was by working with like the DEI office and all that and all of a sudden there is no office. And we have to figure out because the amount of different difficult conversations I had to have with students, whether at our office hours are just by people like passing by because we all know each other because again, it's a really tiny school so everyone knows everybody, which is, you know, to go. It's good or bad. I want to everybody knows everybody. But it just like the amount of difficult conversations I would have to students being like, I don't know if I could be here anymore, but I don't have the money to go to any other school was just like it's too like dangerous, emotionally taxing for me to even go to a class right now with everything happening. But I need my degree. So I can like help my family get out of like poverty, to like go into a profession that pays well, but I can't go to any other school like those types of conversations being held with people. And I think in the last Board of Trustees Meeting, because they were all public, under like what's called the Sunshine Law, which basically means if you're having any, like public official type of level meeting, that in some ways in relation to the government, you have to live stream it or open it up for public comment. It can't be business to do in private. And so each of our Board of Trustees meetings, because we're public university, which means we're being run by the state of Florida, they would be broadcasted. And it literally went from the semester prior to the fall semester of people never watching these meetings, like literally nobody would show up, they would last maybe 15 minutes to get through all their business, to now being like, there are 1000s of people inside and outside both 1000s of people watching online taking three hours to get through this meeting, one of them took like four hours to like try to get through this because they have to have everybody that's up for public comment that signed up for it speak and that usually took two hours to get through. Because people just had a lot to say to these new Board of Trustees members as they rightfully should. And the last board trustees meeting, my co chair and I, we register to say something basically as like our departing thing, because they were going off to do off campus research study for this next semester. So they it was like their last time being at New College too. And at that point, already pretty much knew I was transferring out. So we're like, you know, what, we haven't really been able to say like too much as being in the like the student government because we want to make sure that what we are saying in our position is also not going to accidentally harm somebody else. And their position because we don't want to make it seem like, oh, this person is doing too much, or they're doing too little whatever, just based off of like what our job was, and like kind of how that works. Because you know, it sounds like oh, like student government, a little like student fun activity thing. But when it goes to like the university level, especially in such a media spotlight like that, it becomes a pretty serious job. I'm not gonna lie, like it was quite crazy doing all the stuff because like, all of a sudden, we're doing like media training. And I was just like, whoa, what's happening here, we just wanted to put on some celebratory, diverse events and now very are speaking in front of 1000s of people on why like suppressing educational freedom was bad and why you not wanting to uplift certain people's voices is harmful type of thing. And so we got to speak, we were trying to do like a joint speech together, but for some reason we weren't able to. So I read one half of it. And then they read the other half. We had like one minute to speak. And at that point, when I was speaking to them, I knew that basically, I wasn't coming back to New College, I thought maybe there was a chance I would still stick around there. But when I was in the middle of the speech, and saying the things that I was saying, and I was looking around at these Board of Trustee members, and only two of them were looking at me, and the other ones were just doing whatever else they want to playing with their pen checking their phone, flipping through some notes, not paying attention the slightest, I'm like, Okay, this is a lost cause, basically, um, yeah, yeah. And at that point, I went, Okay, we're done.

Marlena  

I was able to see your speech, I think it was on your mom's feed, but very powerful. And, you know, very proud of you to be able to go up there and do that. That was pretty amazing.

Hayden  

Thank you. I appreciate that. But yeah, it was basically at that moment where I was just like, this isn't going to change. And that's not me trying to just be like, sadistic or anything. It's just like it has gone really far down deep at this point that the school is out right now. They have put in some changes where I don't even know how they're going to come back from that. Or like the administration is just so JAM PACKED of like far right allies and people of that nature. Where I just I don't personally see. Sorry to end that story on like such a sad note, but it's just, that's just the reality of that situation. And if it can happen to like our school, it could happen to literally any other school in the country, which is why I think it's important to talk about because it is possible for a school to go from any ones like how new college used to always be to like where it is now in such a drastic change. And literally, what is it September. So like in literally eight to nine months, it has completely not even recognizable anymore. I went there two weeks ago, actually, to get my stuff out of storage. So I went to Florida for my 20th birthday, so to go see my friends and just to like hang out with them over time, but some of them still lived on new college campus because they still go there. And so I had a walk onto that campus again. And it just was so unrecognizable. They've like, painted all the color that was on all of our buildings to like this weird white color now and like I don't know, you could feel that it has not even just like physically but energy wise with like, yeah, like even like with like the new students who are there to just the vibe is completely different. And I was just like, Yeah, I think I made the right choice. But I'm still trying to do whatever I can still even from afar to help out. With that school still, like I'm still working with some professors and faculty members to try to help bring these like administration discriminatory acts to justice and trying to see how I could still support students and all that stuff. Yeah. Even from Indiana, that do whatever you can.

Jamie  

Yeah, yeah. So everything that happened in Florida, obviously, and that is going on is, again, like you said, it's not just limited to new college, it literally could happen anywhere at any time. And the fact that they're taken away. The freedom of education and what you should be learning and what you can be learning in those opportunities is just tragic. And I'm so proud of of you and the students down there for the advocacy work you've been doing for that school. But totally understand why you need a break to Yeah,

Hayden  

it was a lie.

Jamie  

Yeah, but yeah, and I think you'll forever be embedded with the school somehow, for sure.

Hayden  

I still love it dearly, even in all of its incredible faults. The old New College is how I like to think of it, which is kind of funny to say the old news. But yeah, and

Jamie  

you arrived, I yeah, I remember talking to your mom when you went off to school and a few months into it. And she just kept saying how you're just, you're thriving down there, like you had found your element of FOMO. This was your people. So it was very tragic to hear the ongoing issues down there.

Hayden  

But they're still over what you've done, they're still fighting the good fight down there, which is good, they will just let it slip away.

Jamie  

Unfortunately, we are on a on a clock here. It's been great. I do want to give you the opportunity to share with our listeners, any messages, any important notes that you think need to be put out there for our community.

Hayden  

Yeah, basically just include others accept others for who they are. And not only just accept them, but also celebrate them. Because diversity and a community is so incredibly strong and powerful people from all different types of races, genders, religions, sexualities, literally everything under the sun, someone has a different perspective than you and someone has a different opinion, whether or not you agree with it or not. I think it's still really important to listen to it because you might learn something new. And it might give you the opportunity to grow as an individual, and only from accepting one another and collaborating with one another and just having conversations with people. Just asking a question like what we're doing here now, you could learn so much about something that you had no idea about, or something maybe that was quite stigmatized, but now you have a better grasp and understanding of and only like through human diversity and celebrating others, and not trying to tear each other down. For just being a little bit different than you. I feel like it's definitely the key to advancing a society because love. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

Jamie  

that's amazing. I am just so thankful for you being here. We're also grateful for you sharing your journey, your experiences and your thoughts. And I just

Hayden  

thank you for having me. I

Jamie  

love Jamie. Oh, my goodness, I just I love you. So thank you very much for being here. Thank you. And I'm still gonna let Christy take out because I don't know how to say all those words at the end. I will definitely screw it up.

Christy  

Okay. All right. I'll take it from here. Thank you for joining us on this episode of a witch, a mystic and a feminist. It has been a pleasure, please go to WMF pod.com. You can see All of our past episodes, you can interact with us ask us a question any of those things gets more information on your hosts and we will see you next week.