Continuing the Witchcraft Wisdom: Exploring "A Box of Magick" with Jamie Della

Jamie Della Oct. Episode

Christy  

Welcome to the show. We are Jamie Marlena and Christy, better known as a witch, a mystic and a feminist. And today we are back with Jamie Della. Hi, Jay.

Jamie Della  

So happy to be back with you ladies have so much fun talking with you.

Christy  

Yes, we all felt the same. We're like, let's do it again. Let's try to get through it again.

Marlena  

Yeah, absolutely. And we're doing it after your book has been released, I have it in my hands. I also have the audiobook, it. Be honest with you, I still have four chapters to go. By, I mean, I have like, deep dove into your book, I think it's absolutely amazing. I kind of want to get into it a little bit in that, what I love about it. And the format that you have in each chapter, you're talking about a specific subject, which you give the information about. And then you go into a story about you and your mentor, Connie do masters and stories and teachings from her. And then you go into the actual teachings of that topic, whether it be a spell or a meditation, or whatnot. And it's just, it's it's so fantastic. But your stories that you tell about Connie, I truly felt like you were talking to me that Connie was talking to me, I'm getting chills right now. It's just very well

Jamie  

You're making me cry. So I know. She's tearing up.

Marlena  

It's so beautiful. It's so beautifully written. And I also got the audio book and so to be able to hear you tell your words with how you wrote it, you know, be able to speak it how you wrote it is just it's amazing. You know, and I have a long commute. So I'm like, to it as I'm as I'm driving, and it's beautiful. But again, the format of it is just amazing. Like I said, I felt like when you're speaking Connie's words, I feel like Connie was speaking to me, as well.

Jamie Della  

I think that was her intention. So I really think she's like, You see, I can't author a book from the other side, you just watched me. I feel like that was a big part. It was like, passing on that legacy of hers of wanting that. And I, for me having this, just as a reminder for the readers that essentially, at the beginning of the pandemic, my mentors daughter sent me, my mentors entire magical collection of study and curricula and teachings. And I wove that material into this book. And I wanted it to be that there was two teachings. So it wasn't just her material, because sometimes, honestly, things that were written in the 80s were outdated, there was a lot of yHI here, because that's how we, we used our pronouns, you know, 4050 years ago. So there was there was some adjusting to be made, just to modernize it a little bit. But otherwise, I really wanted people to have that feeling of being held by a mentor. And I, you know, even had to look up that word. Because, you know, a lot of times, especially as, as a writer, we consider ourselves wordsmiths. Those are our tools, right? If you're, that's the tools of the trade are the words. And so I looked up mentor, and it's a wise and trusted counselor or teacher. And I love that because why is this clearly we mean, you know, there's something they have to teach us that we want to learn. But the idea of trusted is really important. You know, I feel like it's, you know, always important, but especially today, when people will get that message on Instagram, like the spirits telling me I'm supposed to teach you. You know, that's what Kanye said to me 21 years ago, but nobody was saying that nobody was going around, trying to get $5 for a reading $10 for a quick card or whatever the hustle is, you know, there wasn't that hustle. But having somebody who could, you could trust that has your best interest at heart and wants to impart that knowledge wants to share it because otherwise it dies. We don't share it.

Marlena  

Yeah, yeah, this book and you know, speaking of mentors, I know I had email too. And so I wanted to tell this story, because it was just one of those, you know, the science from the universe kind of thing where I actually had your book, a book of spells, which was originally the teenage book of spells, correct? Right, right. And I remember us talking about it, and I was like, I'd love To get that book for a Lexus, and I've also been looking for a new mentor. So I'm like, I want to get this book for our Lexus. And so I ended up ordering it. But then the next day, Alexis and I, we were talking, and she's like, I want to get with you tonight, like, all of this stuff's taking place. I want to get witchy tonight. So I go over to my bookshelf, and I have a witch section. And they had purchased me a book when they were in Tahoe, probably about nine months prior. And I hadn't really picked it up, you know, just kind of put it on my bookshelf. And so I go and grab it. And I look at it. And it's the book of spells by Jamie. And I was like, because it was that book that I just ordered for Alexis the night before that, and I'm looking for a mentor. And I can't remember what what New Moon was taking place at that time. And so I emailed you, I almost texted you, but it was late. So I was like, let's not do that Marlena boundaries, but. And so we've been discussing mentorship and whatnot. And so hopefully, that's something you're up for that you're going to eventually be offering.

Jamie Della  

Oh, my goodness, I had actually planned to have that. I've already written it all out. And my web designer is traveling I can't I don't know, I can't remember she's in Turkey or Egypt. Now she's doing a goddess traveling, of course, you know, work with other goddesses and she comes back in a few days. And so then it's going to be at my mentorship, I'm going to do something based on the book of spells, and a box of magic, different options for how you want to approach your magic because some people just seem to memorize the correspondences. And other people have that part down or a lot of that down. And we're really ready more to apply it to our life in a personal transformation type of way. If we were on our own heroines journey, let's just say to let go of something like earlier I was saying how I'm on this book signing tour throughout Southern California. And I spent an hour putting together all my outfits and post it notes for each one like because it was gonna match the vibe to you know what I mean? Like, I was gonna say this thing, and I was gonna talk about mentor. So I had this whole outfit. I had all this bodacious chart as showing in my mentorship because I wanted, I wanted to like shake my tattoo. I know, I know, I can't because I left that entire suitcase at home, right? Because I was I was performing as the witch and

Jamie  

You can still shake it Jamie

Jamie Della  

For sure. Yeah, I got the necklaces. We gotta go. I just had like the global the global cleavage going? Live viewer. So I'm a little bummed I was gonna help my friend I was I wasn't gonna motorboat I am 55 I was gonna have some Pagan Pride and we are pretty crazy. I don't know if you've ever been to a Pagan Pride. This is 25 years of Pagan Pride in Los Angeles has been going on I was there. 20 years ago signing books was raping grandma, see? And so it's just always been these, you know, wild people, we finally get a chance to be ourselves, right? You know, where you can you don't have to walk up to somebody and gas whether or not you can tell them who you are. Or what did you see that moon last night? I mean, these people you're walking by and they're talking about, you know, how everything's like, add jumped to this view, or this side or this thing? And you're like, Okay, there's more information than I knew. But what I meant by that is knowing that I left all those accoutrements. And actually, I have the accoutrements bag. So I have this big bag of big horns and stuff like that witch's hat. So I have I have I have something's just show up i witchiness. And that's just me take it to go shopping. Oh, well. But like I was saying earlier, my mentor, whispered in my ear last night, as I started to proliferate and not be able to go to sleep like, oh my gosh, where am I gonna go with it? But if I just wear the same thing, and you start trying to figure it out, and you have that clear, knowing that the universe has taken something from you or sent you a new direction, and you need to sit in the unknowingness for a little bit, yeah, not know why this happened. Not judge yourself for why you think you'd messed up or what you could have done better, and just sit with you're going in a new direction now. And I got this message, my mentor that says, and you do your magic on a desert island? That was the question she used to always ask, can you do your magic on a desert island? In other words, elements live in you. Air is your breath. Water is your blood. Earth is your body? Fire is your spirit. So you've already got all the tools All those things, yes, they're fun to play with. But you are going to Pagan Pride. And I'm sure you'll find a dress. Maybe even some trinkets to wear. So it's it's going not only is it not going to be fine. But remember, you're not that outfit, you're not that presentation, you know, and that what you're speaking from was your spirit and however you've dressed the spirit has has nothing to do with a message. For some people, they need to see that, especially when I was going to Barnes and Noble Oh, I had this whole outfit plan. It was gonna be so fun. We had this white dress to show him that we're like pure and healers. And then I was gonna put the horns on and the cape and do all the other things that go into I still look, I still look safe to you now. You know, just show Yeah, show that packaging. So instead, I'll have to come up with something else. And that's because the magic lives in me. Right. And trusting that Yeah. And I feel that's, that's the message that you know, especially as new witches, they just try to collect all the things. Yeah, all the shiny tools you like, we're like little crows, you know, decorating our nests or something.

Jamie  

And it's funny that you say that because I think that's where my mind goes when I dabble start to dabble into anything. I want all the things I need all the crystals, I need all the herbs, I need all the stuff. And then I get overwhelmed. And I'm like, Okay, I need to go back to just like you said, it's me. It's in me. Yeah, you know, and I that's, that's how I get all the time. And then I blow everything out of proportion. And then I just shut everything down. And I say, I'm not doing this right now. That's just me.

Jamie Della  

Yeah, no, I know. And I liked that I dress for mood. So you know, I was I was kind of all my outfits were orange, purple or black? And today I'm wearing turquoise and like, No, this is soft. witchy was gonna be badass witchy

Marlena  

Well, I have a question because in your book you discuss, this is during one of the stories that you were telling with you and Connie, and you were on a book tour, basically, you had come up to NorCal. And it was for the Wiccan cookbook and the teen spell book. And there was one woman who covered her child's ears when you said the word witch. And then there was a Connie like presence that came into the room a woman who in her witchy wardrobe basically and her staff and you know, pounding it and you know, there to protect you. And then your conversation with Connie, which to me sounded like she sent her and not like gave her a call and said hey, can you go protect my girl? But you know, with with her, you know, was able to basically conjure her up and send her to you. And in essence, you conjured her up as well, because you were receiving that correct. Did I read that correctly? Okay. Yeah. So now with the book tour now, is there do you find that it's different than it was then with that experience?

Jamie Della  

Hmm. Yeah, as a matter of fact, this is a really this is fun Marlena, that you're asking this because So yesterday, I began the tour, essentially, I left my hometown up in the mountains. And I made the first stop at Bishop California. And as I was sitting there, you know, it's just kind of a meet and greet people could come in and to ask me about magic or about the book. And we were just, you know, I was just sitting there for a couple of hours, and people were coming in and chatting and whatnot. And on my Instagram, my publisher had posted a quote from my book in which I said that the first lesson of witchcraft is that you are your own best teacher. Yes. And so I thought that was really cool. Well, then someone responded and said, I can't believe this is on your platform. I'm unfollowing. You another person came on and said, do not believe in witchcraft. And like here, these are public posts that I shared. I'm a collaborator on the post. So it appears on my profile as well. And but this is my publisher, so I can't really go. Well, let me tell you something, you know, to these people. That's, that's not the way to handle this. And they had written a beautiful post about how misunderstood magic is, and how misunderstood witches are, and yet these people just hit it. And 20 years ago, that would have crushed me 20 years ago, I might have turned tail and said, I don't want to do this. I'm too scared. I'm not ready. I can't. You know, my partner is on the fire department and he'll say, if you can look at it, you can help and I'm like, that's why I would never be there because I can't look at those gory stuff. And that's how I feel about being a witch if I can do it. If I can stand up at a Barnes and Noble while they cover their baby's ears. And I can say that's okay. It comes from the word wise. It means we're wise when we follow the seasons. It means we're wise if we can shift the unseen forces such as nausea or fear, if we can find a way to I brought, I brought with me, my allies like clary sage so that if something like this happens, I smell the clary sage and I know who I am, I'm clear. If I go to a book signing event, and I want 30 people to be there and 15 show up. I have my gentian so I can handle small disappointments. So I feel like I have a lot of tools. Now, Jamie, I have a lot of those tools at my disposal. But I know how to use them. I know when to use them. They're not just this collection of things that I have. Because someone told me I should have them to make me witchy right there what I have, just because they support me. So my response back was like, yes, witches have been misunderstood because of centuries of negative propaganda. And I want to say and you're the SAP who believes it. I left that part. Yeah. But so it does hit right, it's still comes, we're still not completely part of them that mainstream and might not ever be because there's a lot of people who are uncomfortable in the mystery. They're uncomfortable when they avoid, of course, they're uncomfortable when they're confused. And instead of sitting in that suit of not knowing they rush for the answers. And witchcraft tells us we can't rush winter no matter how hot this summer is. Yeah, no, wait, there's nothing we can do about it. We have to sit through the cycles. And that is what witchcraft teaches us. And they just don't know that now before I took it personally. And it was like a personal affront that they were coming after me. You know. And now I see that just as their confusion. And I don't need to get involved in it. And it doesn't have to affect whereas before it did before, it really shook me up. I was scared. I also had, you know, sons and I was afraid that they weren't going to be ostracized socially. And now my son wears my goddess necklace he stole they used to steal my socks, because I always had cool socks. So now now they see my goddess jewelry. And they're like, Mom, is that okay? And I'm like, Yeah, I want my 24 year old musician to wear a goddess necklace. Absolutely.

Jamie  

Take them all.

Jamie Della  

Because that's what people used to say like, Oh, isn't it sad? You had boys instead of girls. I'm like, What are you talking about? We all need to learn to elevate the divine feminine, right? And if it comes to a white look, I mean they're they're part Mexican, but they don't look at so a white look and nail who supports the divine feminine? That's what we really need. Right? Yeah, you know, we need that.

Marlena  

And that's part of your one of the chapters the gods and goddesses where you were talking about. You don't necessarily need to be female to bring in the Divine Feminine into your

Jamie Della  

that was really important. Yeah, my I pass that through my cousin. Right when we were right, literally, as I was editing that chapter, my cousin's child transitioned from boy to girl, not in a physical sense, but in all other senses. And Diana, read through this entire chapter to make sure that I was honoring those people who have who feel that woman energy. And for myself, just because I have been growing up because I grew up in the feminine era, because I do believe that you feel the Goddess Energy differently. If you have a menses, if you actually have a cycle, if you've carried life, then you might understand the goddess a little differently, because it's a somatic experience. Yeah, and I wanted to say that carefully. To not ostracize anyone who doesn't have their menses, but feels themselves as a woman, but to also

Marlena  

say, and you mentioned that in there, oh, I

Jamie Della  

was so careful with that, you know, we have to be so careful. So, and I want to be careful, I don't, I don't want to offend anyone, either. And at the same time, I do feel that you know, if you have always claimed or felt that woman, and it comes out when you're 18, or 17, or 38, whatever it is, but if you didn't grow the Tatas at 11, it's kind of hard to understand what it feels like. If they didn't come in if you weren't treated like a woman your whole life. There's something in what it feels like to experience that divine feminine as you as the wounded divine feminine person. And also now solving that wound through our sisterhood through the Spino. That's and through the mother daughter wound and through all just learning how to love and support each other. Again, regardless of what mess It just come from the outside.

Jamie  

Yeah, beautiful. It is beautiful. It's beautiful. Marlena. It's like another question I.

Marlena  

Again, I'm like, I have gone through this book, I still have a few more chapters. So you know, you and I will be having a separate conversation. That's so you know, I mean, like I said, this book, I feel like it's speaking to me like the chapter in divination, where Connie says, our wisdom comes in part from our willingness to be playful. With the information that arrives. Play allows for inspiration or intuition to bubble up naturally. You cannot stare at your tarot deck and ruins and by the mere force of your will insist that the Muse appear. And that is I'm like, Yes, you are 100% speaking to me, because I throw my cards down. And I'm like, You are not saying what I want you to say. Let's replay.

Jamie Della  

And then they're like, and it's still the tower card.

Jamie  

Very good. I wait, I have to redo it. I have to redo it. One more time.

Jamie Della  

Yeah, I know. I hear you. Yeah. So I, I loved that. Because that was and then later on. Because I wanted to learn the Tarot. And my grandmother, I'm sitting at the table right here. Well, my grandmother would would read the chair wrote to me, but I never could get the Minor Arcana, I just could not figure it out and so on. And I wanted to know, are the all the archetypes. And so what Connie had suggested because I was being impatient A F. I was like, Oh, my God, I want to know it all. Just download it. And she's like, Are you sure it was that moment? That you know, like when a young person goes, I want it. I want it all. I want it now. You're like, Are you sure?

Christy  

One of those moments in the past week? It's

Jamie Della  

it was? Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I want it right now. And then yeah. So in any case, so what Connie suggested I do is she goes, Okay, so this is what I think that this is my idea. This is what I would say, take it to zero, like start with the fool. And sleep with the full card under your bed, and you know, sleep with them, meditate, and the next day, write down any notes. And then the next day that you go to edition, the High Priestess, you know, moving on up through the cards. So every night, these big archetypes with all these lessons, what does it mean to be a fool? What does it mean to trust? What does it mean, to just let go, then what does it mean to hold your magic and your power? And then how do you sit as the divine feminine and your wisdom? And then how do you go into the Empress, and then the Emperor, and then all sudden, I was like, oh my god, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, this is a party with too many people talking to me. And by like the time I remember I got to the hermit. i It was too much. And I went back to her. And I said like that was like a fire hose to the mouth. And she laughed so hard. She thought it was the funniest thing because she knew that what happened. She knew I would get overwhelmed. She knew it. But I had to experience that because I wanted so much to have it all. And then I said, Oh, that's not how this works. Yeah, we have to integrate each one. We have to spend time with the art, right? Watching how they play out in our lives. And it doesn't work in 24 hours. Ah, okay. Damn it.

Christy  

Yeah.

Marlena  

Yeah, I loved that story that you told. I mean, you know, both here and in your book. And, again, I just continuously feel like you and Connie are speaking to me through this book. So I'm gonna plug this right now, for those that have not gotten a box of magic, please go and get that it's, it's absolutely amazing. You know, and I could basically give like, quotes from each chapter that I love. You know, one of the things that Connie had said, I was listening to it on my way to work, and I like grabbed my notes off of my phone and started typing it in because I was like, Oh my God, this resonates so much with me. What would you change? If we knew how close to the wild we were? And you know, when you said that in her voice and you know, and I was just like, oh, it touched me so much. And so yeah, there's just there is so much in this book. It is so good.

Jamie Della  

It's chock full I you know, it's really funny I have I find myself yesterday like when people were coming into the shop, I was trying to figure out different ways to explain the each time because it's kind of a different book. You know, it's it's a braided book, but I'll say it's based on the hero's journey. So the 12 steps that Joseph mythologist, Joseph Campbell, identified as our personal transformation. So there's narration, there's memoir, and then there's a spelling ritual for each one. But it's, it's, I wanted it to be something where people could feel like, your confidence and magic is going to dip and grow, it's going to wane and wax and, and that needs to be okay. You know, because I feel like once we have such a connotation of what a witch is, and that, which is somebody who's always confident, who's always standing into the forest and talking to the wolves and the trees, and you know, all these things. And that's not always the case, sometimes a retrograde will, like, knock us on our ass, or a new moon will send us into tears or screaming forward into a boardroom and like we nail it, whatever it is, but it's going to come and go and having that mentor having someone that holds you while you're like, What is this? I thought as soon as I said, which I would always have competence, I would always know myself, because that's how we always saw her. You never saw the witches like Oh, I'm not sure. In any kind of show or story, she knew exactly what she wants to do. She knew herself. And there was never that moment of hesitation. And I wanted to be that authentic witch. And it's really not about memorizing the correspondences. That's not the important part. You know, for me, it's the elements and the subplots, because it's about to help me live it. I always I was telling someone the other day that the first time I kind of came to this was watching the bluebird of happiness. And I tell you latest about this was Shirley Temple, and 1940s with Shirley Temple, it was called the bluebird or Bluebird of happiness. And it's basically it's kind of like a Wizard of Oz, where you're like, I'm unhappy, you leave you find out what helm was good, you go back. So but on the journey on the journey, their cat and their dog turn into humans. So they become personified. And they go on the journey with them. And they go into this forest, and in the forest, all the tree spirits come out. So you have father oak come out, and he's like, Oh, I got this, you know, and then, you know, you've got the weeping willow, and she's like, crying, and they're like, what's the matter? It's just like, it's just so sad. And so I thought, oh, there are three spirits. There are people I can talk to. The animals have their own. I mean, this was of course, anthropomorphizing it to make them be like people versus the spirits that they are, but it gave me that idea. And you know, you're eight, nine years old, you get a crumble, you make a cookie. So that became that opportunity to speak to every alive energy, like I was telling someone, you know, you talk to your tomatoes, because they'll grow better. And so that way when they're in your kitchen, and they're calling to you to add more fresh tomatoes to your spaghetti sauce, and you're like, Was that really the tomato calling to me? Well, it listened to you to grow better. So why can't it communicate to you now? And even after it's been cut, because it still has lifeforce. Otherwise we wouldn't be eating it. And just finding all those little ways, all the time, new ideas, oh, that orange over there, I need some vitamin C right now. I you know, and if there is communication, there is this love and reciprocity in the universe that witchcraft introduces, and helps you live it that when people decide that it's all about negativity, it's like you really aren't educated on this, right? You really don't know what we're coming from. No, right? Not at all. Yeah,

Marlena  

you know, and one of the things that I love that you bring up continuously throughout the book is no two witches are the same. So what I'm receiving from this book is not what say somebody else will receive from this book. But and what I'm receiving from your teachings is not necessarily what someone else will receive from your teaching, they will learn what they need to know for them, I'm learning what I need to know for me. And that is a constant theme throughout the book, which I absolutely love because you know, it's like Oh, am I doing this right Am I do it you know, and and again, you know, it's it's from within and you know, the ebbs and flows that you also speak about throughout the book. And so yeah,

Jamie Della  

let me ask you something. So I want to ask you a question.

Marlena  

asked all the questions. I don't want to be put on the spot.

Jamie Della  

So we'll make Christy answer

Marlena  

because I keep trying

Jamie Della  

I'm curious So why do you think mentors are important in witchcraft? Or let's just all like, anyone? Yeah, have some ideas about that, because that's actually my topic today. That's in two hours, I'll be giving a workshop at Pagan Pride, LA. And so it's about mentors in witchcraft. And I have my ideas that I, you know, but what are your ideas? What do you what do you think about? Why are they important? Why would we want in this particular field in witchcraft? Why would mentors be important?

Marlena  

Well, for me, and I've had different mentors for different things within my modalities that I've been learning and whatnot. And for me, it's to be able to discuss, and I have such an analytical brain that, you know, to be able to wrap my head around it, get another perspective, and then kind of do what feels right to me following that conversation type thing. I'm also having someone teach me versus just me reading it from a book, kind of the hands on like, you know, you can do however you want to, but this is how I do it. You know, and this is where it makes sense for me. Maybe that will make sense for me in that aspect as well.

Christy  

I was gonna chime in. So Jamie, like what you said, at the beginning, and when we are talking about the trust, right, you need somebody that you can trust. And that is, like, totally resonates with me, because when you're learning something new, right, especially like witchcraft, where Jamie wants to go and buy all the things and then she gets overwhelmed, I, you know, I can be similar in that aspect. And so you know, just someone to even say, slow down, you're okay, just take a deep breath, you don't need to rush this, we don't need to rush this, right. I'm here for you, as you learn, and I'm here for you to tell you that you don't need to buy all the things, you know, to like, even dive into even start this, let's start from scratch, you know. And then just like Marlena said, is that person to be able to discuss with, and I feel like you said like a good mentor isn't going to be you have to be like me, you know, you have to think like a you have to you know, a good mentor is going to be like, well, this is my practice, and how like, you know, you're going to develop your own practice. But I'm going to help you and give you a little, you know, pointers here and there and little tidbits of wisdom that maybe you don't have yet, because you're just you're learning. So that's huge for me. Yeah,

Jamie Della  

thank you. I love this. I'm like taking notes.

Jamie  

For me, I again, I go back to, I get overwhelmed with information, you know, I go down the rabbit hole, there's just too much information now. And there's too many people out there trying to tell you that you're doing it wrong. I've had an experience of walking into a shop here looking for crystals and felt very drawn to this place, I had all the signs to tell me like this is where you're gonna go, the first shop I went to was closed that day, I ended up at this other one, like this is a sign this is where I need to go. And the person who was who owns the shop and ran the shop, went to a couple of her talks and everything where she hosted an events and she was just very like, you have to do it this way. So my brain goes to, well, if I don't do it this way, then it's wrong. You know, I have to practice this way. And that's why I think not only having a mentor, but the right mentor that is going to match your needs, if you will, I don't know if I'm explaining myself, right. But yeah, I need I need someone to tell me, this is my way, I'll help guide you to find your way. Because my brain goes to there's only one way to do it. It has to be this way, versus just trusting my intuition and my instinct that well, this works, you know, and that's okay. And that's okay, I'm still connecting with Mother Earth. I'm still connecting with the divine, I'm still connecting with, you know, my spirit guides and all and all the things in nature and, and it's okay. So for me, it's to have that support that where you are is fine. And how you're doing lovely is fine. And there's no right or wrong way. But finding that that connection within so, to me, that's why I feel like why a mentor is very important.

Jamie Della  

I love that. Thank you so much. I mean literally that was that's so good because and I know can

Jamie  

be a guest speaker if you'd like it. You're just kidding.

Jamie Della  

It goes really quick. Jamie squared. Yeah. I guess you won't be like that point. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, you know, it's interesting because I feel like when Wicca was first introduced and the type of Wicca that I learned with Connie, it was very strict. Yeah. In the 80s. It was, you know, very strict. Gardnerian

Jamie  

era she's from two, I'll be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I

Jamie Della  

think what happened, my interpretation of what happened is that the collective consciousness was so dense, that we needed to create that groove into the collective consciousness to make space for witchcraft, that makes space for magic makers, we had to do it the same way over and over and over again, like literally beating a groove. Like the Grand Canyon and the river, you know what I'd be like, yeah, Grand Canyon, within the consciousness, the collective consciousness that would have left no room for witchcraft. This allowed it, but once we had it this particular way. And if we all believe that an autumn, we bring in that orange, we see it more we feel the change, we know what's coming, and, and so we're all on board with it. So it makes the energy of that stronger. So I feel like that's what it had to be in the beginning. And then once we had kind of numbers, as it were, we could diversify. And show, okay, these are the different ways that you can do it, but to push through, but realizing at a certain point, that level of structure doesn't work for everybody.

Jamie  

Right? Right. It intimidated me. It truly is. Yeah, it didn't

Jamie Della  

do it wrong. You're like, am I gonna explode into flames? Yeah.

Jamie  

And she's talking about all these things. Like, you know, you got to get up at four in the morning to do this. And then and all these things, and I'm just sitting there, like, wanting to learn so bad. And thinking, Oh, my god, how am I going to do all this? You know, and oh, my

Jamie Della  

god, there was, yeah, there was one spell I really wanted to include from Connie's deck, but it included 17 ingredients. Oh, like, there's no one today? Oh, five, find 17 angry. And then I was like, maybe that was important, because it's the number of the star. And that's I'm like, no, no. And then there was a new moon ritual, like a money ritual. And it was a nine day novena, which we had to go out every time at the same time. You know, I'm like, yeah, when I can do this one, either.

Jamie  

The past.

Jamie Della  

And, you know, now, if you're, I don't know, whatever your house was falling down around you and you had sick babies, and you were taking care of your father and your mother and your grandmother, you might want to do a nine day spa, like if you needed that, yeah, energy, you know, doing that it does build up. And we are missing that, because we don't have that kind of level of intensity. You know, not everybody does. But it's not always necessary. But when I needed to do a cord cutting, actually with my son, because our relationship the way it was going when he was 19, where he had fallen in love with a wounded bird. And who was very destructive. So I needed to kind of cut myself off from our relationships so that he could find his way back to me, I did a cord cutting exactly the same. At six o'clock at night, I did take a bath after each one, I was very ritualistic with it. And on the second day, she broke up with him. And on the third day, he was on a plane home. So I was like, Edward. So sometimes you need that for but for the most part you doubt, for the most part, magic is playful. And every once in a while we have a need that takes our focus. And that's the only reason for it to be so strict, is just to hold our focus.

Christy  

Yeah, and you're gonna find your own way. Right. Like when we get cord cutting, right, yours was very ritualistic. And some people like they can just lay on a bed and do this cord cutting meditating. Yeah, it's not it's never the same. It's just how they're feeling that day. Yeah. And that's okay, too. Right. So allowing people to make their own way and just like, This is my practice. You know, it's, yeah,

Jamie Della  

it's empowering. Because the whole point is, how are others? Nick, if teaching magic at least, that's my point. You know what I mean? I'm not trying to intimidate anybody. Although someone told me that the other day, and I didn't know what to say to it, because you intimidate me. Like, ah, like, I don't even know what's your purpose?

Marlena  

Like I sorry, I don't know.

Jamie Della  

I know. It was really funny. I still want to text her and go, would you kind of intimidate me too. Isn't that funny? Oh, well too badass women just

Marlena  

like what what do you want? One of the things that I love in your archetype chapter and you're talking about mentors, is how you note that sometimes you'll have many mentors and you know, with a mentor, they may teach you everything that you need to know and that's why you go off and search for other mentors. And I liked that because for me, I come from a martial art It's family and in martial arts, you have one instructor and if you leave that instructor it's frowned upon. And, you know, the whole martial arts community starts talking shit and you know, and it's just I love the structure of martial arts and I love the traditions, but there is a cult like, aspect to,

Jamie  

like tendencies you

Marlena  

walk in, you bow to a picture, and you know, like, yeah, yeah, kind of thing. And so I walked into this with kind of that mindset, like, you know, oh, I need to be loyal to this one specific mentor or, or whatnot. And so, you know, that is a good reminder that you will learn from other people and other teachers. And it's okay.

Jamie Della  

Yeah, because some people, some witches might know a lot about very precise rituals, like I was saying, and some mentor witches are going to tell you all about how to use plantain. And you know, rosemary, and they're the herbalist and this one is going to teach you like, I have a friend who taught me a lot about different deities I didn't know the Mount Shasta goddess temple, I just went through their priestess hood training. And I learned a lot about different gods and different Goddesses in particular, and women in history, who have stood up for our mystical ways and our magical ways and paying tribute to them and new crystals and new ways of new songs. That was a really big part of early Wicca, at least for me, but by early I mean, in the 90s, in the 2000s, was the songs we used to sing songs, or everything, ya know, and, and so there was so much circle magic songs. And there might just be someone who just wants to teach you about song. And recognizing that there are so many different facets to witchcraft, that you can be learning, you can have a mentor that just teaches you about the evil eye. And what does that mean? Like, it's not just about protecting yourself, it's also about you not having any jealousy, or FOMO, or anything about anybody else. So when you wear your protection, it's not just that someone's not going to want to take your stuff away from you. That's it. You don't want to do that to anybody else. And learning all those nuances and how they apply to your life. I feel like, yeah, it's really important because, you know, if I decide to never take another mentor again, then your mentor dies. What are you supposed to? Do? You know what I mean? You just put up their picture in a candle and go, What do you got? Talk to me.

Jamie  

Sorry, Topcon reference.

Jamie Della  

I got it. I know exactly where you're going. Oh, my God, Meg Ryan's breakout movie.

Marlena  

Well, we're coming up on time. So Jamie, I want to give this time to you. What would you like to leave our listeners with and I know I want them to all go out and buy your book a box of magic. So beautiful. So beautiful. So beautiful.

Jamie Della  

But please, oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me back. First of all, I really, it's so good talking to you. Because I get to take this energy with me to Pagan Pride. You know, you're all coming with me. And and it's going to be fabulous, like, right about now or very soon, they're going to be doing they're doing the opening invocation. So we're kind of all part of that energy. So I guess the first thing is, yes, definitely. I want to say my book and my teachings, the trusting yourself is really important. And Jamie, like you said, following all those signs, maybe, but we don't always know what the lesson is just because we follow the signs. And we end up at the crystal shop, you know, buying from someone who's very has a strict adherence, you could go wow, I don't want that. I'm gonna go into the eclectic thing. You know, like, I remember when I was first introduced to eclectic witchcraft, and then introduced to this DC WA, very strict witchcraft. And then I blended the two, you know, so knowing that, you know, sometimes that strict is needed, when the need is great. Because it's, it's the Shiva to the Shakti it's really holding the boundaries, so that you can direct your energy. And then there's those times, like Chrystia, when you mentioned that people can just lay on their bed and and release somebody without having to go through the ritual, you know, or without needing the tools but it's finding out what it's a smorgasbord. It's a potluck, it's a pagan potluck. You know, like, what do you like, you know, and knowing that you get to go to that buffet and pick and choose. And I find that really important and the reason I wrote a box of magic and not only because she just presented me with information and asked me to was because I felt like that, uh, while ago, I took a there was a survey about witches. And they asked, How did you find out about witchcraft? You know, was it through online through books through festivals, and nobody had written mentor, they didn't even have it as an option to check the box. And we've lost that ability to lean into each other and learn from each other. And that's what I wanted. Because right now, all the magical books that I see there's just their nonfiction cookbooks, right, you get to like, here are your ingredients. And these are the different recipes that you can put together. But I wanted to show magic alive, magic living through female friendship, that was really important to me. Because as I came up as a goddess, as I came up as a witch, we were lifting the feminist, we were lifting the mystic, we were lifting the witch, everything that you three stand for, we were lifting that. And that doesn't mean that we are just discounting the mail, it's just like, you've already got a lot of energy, you already got a lot of attention, we need to give this attention to the women and elevate that. And I want to do it by show me, as we're all about relations, about connection. And we can talk about it all day long. But unless you show and give an example. It's flat. And this book, I wanted to reveal the love that can grow your magic, and that's in your Coven, with yourself, looking at a mirror, loving your essence. And if that's hard, loving yourself through looking at your friends eyes and seeing that reflection, and then your mentor is the one who's going to guide you and help you find your own way. And the important part is it like you said like we've all said, the big takeaway. No mentor should say this is the only way to do it. No teacher should ever say my path or the highway. Yeah, no, because we're all learning and if we spend a little bit of time doing it very specifically, that's okay. We can always incorporate that just like full of corporate the freeform we get to choose and empowering yourself and knowing that you are your own sovereign nation. That is really what I want people to know. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me so

Marlena  

much for coming back.

Jamie  

It was beautiful.

Jamie Della  

Jamie we're both crybabies.

Christy  

Jamie della Oh my gosh. It's been fabulous having you back and go buy her book for sure all the places. And if you can catch her on her book tour, please do so. And that's it for this episode. So go interact with us on our website. That'd be WMF pod.com

Jamie Della  

award winning award. And

Christy  

go ask us a question. You can also look at all of our past episodes interact with us. We'd love that and we will see you next week.