Reclaiming Your Feminine Energy with SaraEllen Hutchison

SaraElllen Hutchison 

Christy  

Welcome back to a witch, a mystic, Anna feminist. Today we are joined by a very special guest, Sarah Ellen Hutchison. Welcome to the podcast.

SaraEllen

Thank you so much, Christy. I am so excited to be here. This is so much fun. That's an awesome room to be in with witches, mystics and feminists.

Christy  

Yeah, we are super psyched. We have been prepping and just very excited to welcome you. Sarah Ellen is an attorney, a certified deep dive coach, a flower essence practitioner, author of the book feminine energy feminist, so you can see maybe how that aligns with our podcast. why we're so excited.

Marlena  

So we're gonna jump in saralyn. Again, we're so happy to have you on here. We've read your book, we've read your blogs, we noticed that your main focus is on feminine energy. As a deep dive coach, you help women tap into their feminine energy. Can you go into a little bit about that? What does that actually mean?

SaraEllen

Well, feminine energy is not just a picture of girly behaviors, and a bunch of cool shit that you can see on Instagram. And, you know, rosegold things with little succulents in them and a beautiful calf tan, although a lot of that stuff is pretty compelling. That is just, that's just the surface level. The feminine energy is our divine authentic source of power if we identify as women, and all genders have a mixture of masculine and feminine energies, they're also thought of as yin and yang. It's a It's not just what we have developed over time in Western culture, as the sort of Victorian ideal of a very pricy subservient, obedient woman, you know, or library, like the prom queen archetype, the feminine energy is not just audio news, it can also be some very strong, forceful energy that gets you through some difficult times, and some challenging fields that maybe were not occupied by many women 50 or 100 years ago. And I think that feminine energy has two main components. One is your sense of authority over your own life, and influence over others. And the other part is a real belief like it in your bones, belief in your beauty. And when we don't have both of those fully lush and present and, and on fire in us, then we burn out, then we kind of the rails come off, like the wheels come off in our in our lives. Even if we're checking all the boxes and doing everything, quote unquote, right.

Marlena  

That's very interesting. Yeah. You know, because for me, I never thought about it as that in your bones buting

Christy  

that kind of hit me when you said it. I'm like, wait, what? Am I missing that? 

SaraEllen

No, we're all allowed to have those days where we don't feel it. But it's not just kind of like, oh, you know, take everything out of your closet and have the perfect, you know, coordinated wardrobe and always match your bra and panties. And, you know, never ever wear pajamas to the grocery store. Although I don't recommend making a habit of that. I saw some interesting things last night, actually. But it's not just like putting on makeup. It's snowing inside your own radiance, if you're listening to this, and you're sort of new to this sort of exploration of masculine and feminine energies and and, you know, just energy in general or feminist spirituality or any of that stuff you might be going. This is a little out there. This is not very concrete. It's kind of like if something is obscene, like, yeah, I just know it when I see it. It's like, if you've got it, you know, when you have it, and then how do you get it, you have to realize you've never lost it, just trying to bring it to surface, right and realizing that to be a woman is to be a creator, and not just like birthing babies, but also having the initial spark of an idea. Having having that drive to, you know, correct an injustice, creating something. Usually it's the woman who drives you know, or the feminine energy dominant individual in any relationship, regardless of the person's gender. It's the feminine energy person who's like, I hate the kitchen. Yeah, this has to change. Right? Yeah. Or or seeing something in the world and going, ooh, this this this is intolerable. Yeah, we've got to do Something about this. So when you realize that eons of patriarchal conditioning have got us all feeling like, we're the other, or we're sort of the accessory, or, you know, the male was sort of the norm. The male's sort of the crash test dummy, and the thing that they test all the drugs on and everything and like the male was the norm, and then the woman is sort of a decoration. When when all this stuff is in sort of the deep frames of our psychology, we think of ourselves as negotiators and not creators, we lose what our raw power. Yes. And that's why you see somebody who they might be a PhD or a JD, or you know, an engineer or super high power brain person physically cower when their boss comes into the room, because in them, they've just forgotten that there a creator and not a negotiator. So

Marlena  

how do you teach women how to tap into that energy? Yeah,

Jamie  

here's the big question. How do we do this? 

SaraEllen

Yeah, how do we do this? How do we do this? Um, there's a couple of approaches, I'll just start with the cognitive one. And then I'll go into some of the energetic ones. And then as we sort of dance down the path of energetic stuff, I'll get into, you know, more out there stuff. So let's start with sounds good. Yeah. So let's start with kind of the basic, I did my primary coach training at the Life Coach School, and they have a tool called the model. And the model is based on cognitive behavioral therapy, and the essence of it is, circumstances are neutral. Even ones that 99% of the world would agree, suck, they're neutral, we have thoughts about them, it's our thoughts that cause our feelings, basically, just a chatter the sentences in our head, and it's our feelings that drive our behavior. And then it's actually what we do, and then what we do in our body language, and then what we're not doing when we're being passive, that creates the results that we experience. And so when I'm working with somebody, and they're like, ah, you know, I'm fighting with my significant other all the time, or I can't find one, or, you know, my male colleague is making more money than I do, even though I have two more years of experience, or whatever the problem is, there's something that they're doing that is putting that package of shittiness in there result. So it's something that they're doing in the way they're acting, that is bringing it into their life. Now, this is not to say that anything is anyone's fault. There's a whole bunch of factors that play in, but then, you know, here's, here's the hand that the woman has been dealt, how is she playing that hand in that situation? It's always, always always her beliefs, her feelings, her vibe, and then her conduct. And one of my favorite questions and anybody listening, they can ask themselves this, okay? If I were a fly on the wall, in the situation where your boss is mansplaining you and you're like, today's the day, I'm going to ask for a raise. And I find myself not asking again. And it's been I've been thinking about this for four months. If I were a fly on the wall, what would I see? That's interesting. Yeah. Explain it to me. Like, I'm blindfolded. And I can't see what's happening in that room. And it's just the movie. It's just the fourth wall of the play is up, right? And I'm just looking at this. Where are you sitting? What is your body language? When he walks into the room? What are your shoulders do? And then I ask what's going on in your head? And there's so much like, Girlboss Yeah, out there. Feel the fear and do it anyway. You know, go get it girl, you know, all this stuff. And then we, and then we feel like, Oh, I must be just some complete, incompetent woman. When in the moment. I can't do what I fucking need to do. Right? What's wrong with me? Exactly

Jamie  

it? Yeah, no,

SaraEllen

I'm drinking my coffee. Mug. Great day.

Christy  

And so it's so

Jamie  

true, though. It's so true. Yeah. You got all the things surrounding you. And you're like, what is? Why is this not working for me?

SaraEllen

Why is it not sinking in? Yeah, well, it's because there's a couple of things. You know, like the little cartoon angel and devil on the shoulder. It's like, one is telling you to eat the carrots and the other one is telling you to eat the pie. And we'll have the one that says I can handle this like a boss and I'm just gonna I'm gonna do it today. And I'm enough and blah, blah, blah. And then the other one is like, what's the use? This is not gonna work. My boss is an asshole. I, why did I even go into this career? What am I doing here? I should just move to Costa Rica and like make jewelry and sell it on a beach out of a van down by the beach.

Marlena  

And okay, so going into that though, would you consider that being more like wounded feminine energy


SaraEllen

Indeed

Marlena
or toxic feminine energy? Yeah. Being that that cowering that you feel inside of you,

SaraEllen

right? That is That is some wounded feminine energy. That's the part of you that you're a little girl and you're afraid you're going to get sent to the principal's office for something you watch somebody else gets sent to the principal's office, and you get that adrenaline because you're like, Oh, my God, I never want that to be. Yeah. And I'm in because I think for high achieving women in particular, I mean, all of us get in some form, the Be a good girl thing. And so for women who are career women, high achieving smart, all of that, sometimes we get this sort of extra, souped up version of that. And I call it a good little student syndrome. It's like, oh, you're amazing. Look at how good you are. You can be anything you want. And then underneath we're hearing and some of it might be what we're being told. And then some of it might be, you know, just what we're interpreting is, and I have to be the best. Yes. And so we go into that meeting with the boss. And all we've ever done all of our lives is compare ourselves to the other people, am I the best today? What have I done for the world lately. And so like we've already shot on ourselves so much, and of course, we're not going to speak up, of course, we're going to cower. And at that point, it's like we're energetically flatlining, we're not tapped into any masculine energy that could get us going. And we're not tapped into that feminine energy that could be super influential in the people around us giving us what I like to think they actually do want to give us

Jamie  

absolutely that, that hits hard. Because I feel like you're speaking to my soul right now. absorbing all this information, but you always feel like you have to be the best, no matter what it is, and who are you being the best for I hear the chatter in my head, I hear it. There's moments at work where I'm sitting there going, why stop, stop, like, I literally have to tell myself in my head, stop saying those things, just get this done or handle this problem or whatever. Why are you talking so negatively to yourself, like, just get through this situation, but who are you being the best for, you'd be in the best for yourself for or for your boss, or to prove to other people that you are the best in your position, your, your job, whatever it might be, and I feel like that's always in my head, I have to be the best I have to do what's best, but who am I doing the best for? And if it's really for me, then I need to find a way to to really help absorb that for myself, and not be it for everyone else. So the things that you're saying just, I feel that a lot. And it's very interesting.

SaraEllen

And what I'll offer to you is that there is nothing wrong with that desire at the best, even if it even if it kind of was sort of dumped on us in a less than great affirming way. It's part of you now, you've done a lot of amazing things. Because of it. Like I think all of us who have this sort of high achieving, you know, I won't even call it people pleasing. It's sort of like world pleasing. Yes. Like, all of us who have this. Yeah, we've made so much lemonade out of those lemons, we've done so many amazing things, then beat ourselves up when we see oh, you know, I'm kind of doing this mostly just because I'm afraid of pissing people off or making them disappointed. Okay, so but I did this, this trauma training with a therapist out in the Olympic Peninsula. It was it was online. And Bonnie bad knock. She has this beautiful term for these parts of us that were like, oh, you know, this is my big hang up. And I really wish I would stop, you know, being defensive or reacting this way, or people pleasing or whatnot. She calls them our protectors. And when we honor that that part of us emerged with a beautiful intention to make a safe and Make Our Life Better than when we see it. We can just be like, Oh, okay, that's part of me that does that. And sometimes you might continue doing the thing knowing full well that it's coming from a approving energy, or I'm afraid they won't like me energy, and just going. And that's why I'm doing this today. And it just softens it. It just softens it so much that, you know, then you can have on. 

Jamie  

that's beautiful.

Christy  

I really liked that. Just like acknowledging. Alright, today I'm doing it trying to please, my coworker, my boss, whoever. Okay, moving on. I've recognized it.

SaraEllen

Or a grandparent who's no longer even alive. You know. Another fascinating book called, it didn't start with you by Mark Wolin. And I, I cited a couple of times in feminine energy feminists like some of these things are in our DNA. Yeah, I'm not a science person. So I can't like point to where it is, or tell you exactly the mechanics of how this works. I'll let the science people do that. But we know if there was somebody who had to really scrap to put food on the table a couple generations ago, we don't forget that. Yeah. Right. So we want to be super high performance women and do it all of it. No, absolutely. So those are our protectors. And that is our, our ancestral residue. Also, in aware, I think awareness is like 80% of healing. 

Christy  

Oh, yeah. I would agree. Just being aware of your tendencies and your behaviors and the why right behind them.

SaraEllen

Because then you have choice. Yes. Like, we all have some amount of trauma, you know, if we have been alive and paying attention.

Jamie  

Yeah. Seriously?

SaraEllen

Sure. And so when you are when you get to a point with any particular issue, any any situation you encounter, any memory you have from the past anything where you're no longer sort of reacting to it, like you're trying to put out a fire. Yeah. And you, you see it, then you have choice in the moment of how you're going to behave, what you're going to say, what you're going to say to yourself, then celebrate because, you know, the healing is that choice. It's not necessarily just like, oh, I never feel bad about anything anymore. I mean, that's just kind of another sort of bullshit myth of Western culture that like, everyone look really happy. Otherwise, we're going to decide that something is wrong with you.

Jamie  

What did we discuss that too, right? The like the fake positivity, right? That just like the I'm carrying around the boss bait stuff, and I got my, my positive things on everything should be happy and roses and just pretending and sometimes you just have to sit and be in that emotion. And yeah, we get that.

SaraEllen

Why does it feel so good to listen to the blues be sad country songs, because we're supposed to have the whole range of emotions, there's no bad emotion. It's all just information. There's no harm in like, staying there and like feeling it and moving through it lately. Otherwise, all we'd ever have would be like the Bobby McFerrin song and then we have nothing else.

Jamie  

And that would be sad in itself. Right?

Marlena  

Is that the Don't worry be happy song?

SaraEllen

Yeah. Oh, and then then shiny happy people. I'm super showing my 90's Right now everyone.

Jamie  

We're there with you.

Christy  

Yeah, okay, good. Because we're kind of touched on positive thinking but in your book, you say that positive thing? Yeah, it's a myth. Can you elaborate on that?

SaraEllen

Sure. Um, there's a bunch of like personal development stuff that has unfortunately gotten entangled with bro marketer bro marketer is that dude with sunglasses maybe it popped collar standing in front of a Lamborghini sweater around his neck the wrapped sweater around his neck row he depending on what part of the country he is in he may or may not have loafers with no socks

I just I just tell where we're tuning into same union archetype of the guy with no socks and loafers. Yes. Yeah. And and he's going to tell you that you should think positive and that you can be rich like him. Okay, so the southern version of it is to like, say something really insulting and then bookended on both ends with bless them. But

Jamie  

then bless their heart, bless them

Christy  

Bless their heart.

SaraEllen

And we do this to ourselves. We're like, okay, my positive affirmation is, I have a Millionaire Mind or something. And then under it, we're like, oh my god. I don't want to do that. Look I should have made more money. Last year, I'm kind of an irresponsible person, okay? I'm a millionaire mind of the Millionaire Mind of a Millionaire Mind. And then you're like, Fuck it, I want to cook you buy that overpriced latte at Starbucks. So this is why positive thinking is, is a myth. Because if we think that's the only thing that's going to, you know, change how we get our results, then we're denying the fact that we have all of the emotions in the range of emotions, and they're all there for a reason, evidenced by the fact that we have them and they exist. And so like, you know, the cognitive behavioral tool, the model is so powerful because it describes exactly how you ended up where you are. However, it's like scissors, right? But don't run with scissors. Like it's a powerful tool. But it's really dangerous if you use it against yourself, or you're reckless with it. So you look Oh, my thoughts create my reality. Okay, therefore, I have to think only positive thoughts. Because I want my reality to be positive, right? Impossible. You have like 60,000 Plus thoughts a day. And some of your negative thoughts can be the catalysts for change.

Christy  

Or you good point, some of the biggest changes have come from.

SaraEllen

Right, right. Like, I, I can't stand it when somebody well, and then I get over it quickly, when somebody tells me, I don't know what I want. I'm like, I know that's not true. It's not, if somebody's just spent the last 20 minutes, telling me all the things that they don't want in their lives, they already have a lot of clarity, they know what they want. And they're like, Whoa, I don't like no, you actually have a couple of thoughts going on. One of them is, I don't think I'm capable of getting it. So I'm afraid, or I don't think I'm allowed to have it. So I'm angry. It's always something along those lines. And if you're just pasting over the whole thing, you know, with positive affirmations that you don't even believe because under there and your body will tell you immediately if you're angry or you're afraid, work with that thought work with that, quote unquote, negative thought, it's going to tell you a lot about what you want, what you should do about it. But if we're pasting over everything with positive thoughts all the time that we don't yet believe we miss out on our own truth. And, you know, which is all kind of the whole sort of toxic patriarchal worldview anyway, of like, don't listen to yourself, especially if you're female.

Jamie  

 And then on top of that, you're female, there's too much power there.

SaraEllen

Listen to us, we have a product for that.

Marlena  

Well, so you were also speaking about the patriarchy and in your position as an attorney, I mean, that is very much a male driven career. And in that career, so we're going to just change a little bit. But in your career, you're an attorney, you also have a little Woo. In your background, how do you balance being your true authentic self, and still being respected in your profession?

Christy  

And for the people out there? Can you we had to describe what we'll do is, we had to have this conversation because I did not know what it was so.

SaraEllen

Okay, um, I love this question. And I have a couple things to say about it. I don't feel like these are two things that are odds that I have to balance. I didn't always feel that way. There was a point where I felt like this part of me and I do I am a flower essence practitioner. Flower Essences were part of how I got through the stress of law school and the stress of like taking the bar in two states in one year. Wow. don't recommend that. That was Wow.

Marlena  

Like, why would you do that? 

SaraEllen

Well, you know, lawyers are masochists. So there's that but the flower essences I have the kids down there looking at them, you know, their vibrational and so, you know, to explain to anybody what, what they are like, well, on some level, there's no part of the flower actually there. It's just the energy of the flower. And some people will be like, cool, and other people are like you know, but but I know that it works works for me. Okay, I heard this quote from a friend of mine who went to Burning Man and like, went and listened to some teacher there. And so I'm going to botch it because like, I don't even know who the teacher was, or the complete quote, but it was something like when you bring your medicine into the, into the room, bring it in, in such a way that they don't immediately rejected if that's the medicine that they need. And by medicine is meant one's gift and one power sort of in the indigenous sense, and I'm like probably the last person on the planet, to speak for indigenous folks like I, that's, I'm not qualified. But that is my understanding of what is meant by medicine in that context. And so I think that all of the, the whoo things and by whoo things, I think things that are energetic, they're spiritual or metaphysical, they are not necessarily the spiritual things that you would hear about. In a conventional like church of one of the Abrahamic religions, these are things that are outside of that realm. And to me, it's just part of nature. And I, you know, I tell people need nature is my church, I'm a skier nature is my church. And so I'm like, well, it's just as normal as a tree. And so I'm not going to go into a room, you know, where people are behaving with the certain sort of cultural codes have an industry and be weird. And I know what weird is, I know what I see it, I'm not going to be that chick who goes in, in like a costume, I am going to go in in a way that if I have something unique to say, that is informed by the the full person I am, I'm going to go in realizing who my audience is. So they hear it if we was not your thing. And you're kind of an agnostic, secular person, or you're a very, you know, devout person of some kind of more, quote, unquote, mainstream faith. You don't walk in to a room and go, Oh, I'm afraid people are gonna think I'm weird. So how am I going to balance all of this, you just walk into that room, and it may or may not come up about, you know, your thing that you hold? So dear being, you know, a devout something, or an atheist, like, it probably won't come up. It's just part of you. And back when I was sorting all this stuff out, and I was working really, really closely on a case with a friend of mine, that we became closer friends throughout the course of working on this case, we were like prepping for trial every day. And I was saying to him, I was like, Well, you know, I do a little meditation. I think, you know, that'll really, that really helps with the stress of practicing law. And I said, you know, I've something i i gotta tell, you know, I really kind of like some, some woowoo stuff. And he was like, Sarah Elad. I know that. That was a really powerful moment to be just like, you know, or you can just assume people already know and don't care. Because, you know, whatever their thing is, can't you feel it? Can't you kind of Intuit what it is when you walk in the room? Or you look at the books they have on their shelves? Like, you can just feel oh, yeah, you don't care. So that's my take on it.

Jamie

Love it. Yeah.

Christy  

I love it. 

Marlena  

I do, too. You were speaking about how nature is your church. And when you and I were speaking offline, one of the things that you said really stuck with me was that we need to start normalizing nature's being outside. I'd like to go into that a little bit more when we were talking about that.

SaraEllen

Okay. So basically, back when I was doing some environmental grassroots work, one of the things that we talked about was, we should stop talking about the environment, you know, like, it's the thing that you drive to, and then go look at it, like, oh, isn't that pretty? Now I'm gonna go back to my slick apartment that looks like a bento box. Like, they're building the ball over around here. It's our environment. And we have bodies and we have trillions of bacteria in our bodies. We're the environment, and you can't separate the mental health of a human being from nature itself. And again, I hate it when I start talking about what science says because I seriously don't know what science says. Let science speak for itself. But you know, you can find articles that talk about how you know your blood pressure is better when you take a walk outside how working out outside, even if there isn't a lot of if while even if there isn't daylight will do more for you than like being under the hot lights and TVs you know, in a gym. And you know, they can they can measure the I love they they all sides people, they can mess. I'm so glad for them. They who decide to measure things that just sort of intuitively feel true and obvious, can measure that we do better when we get daylight and we get fresh air. And so I've I've told people even if you live in a place that feels really inhospitable when you go outside or it's dark, or it's too hot or it's too cold or it's all these things, at least get a houseplant. Bring nature in. Nature in. And I don't know that the ultimate full brain happiness reset for me is being in the mountains and being, you know, around the trees and the wildflowers or all the snow. And it just I feel different. I know it does something to me everyone knows this. And so it's not just the realm of granolas and all of the people wearing the cool shit. You know, in the REI mailer

Christy  

the Patagonia

SaraEllen

Yes. You know what, I'm really glad that those life is good T shirts are out of style. There were a number of years ago when those things were like, everyone had these life is good T shirts. And I was like, those are so sometimes life isn't good. And I was like, I had this idea I was gonna come up with the life sex t shirt, you know, where you have a hole in your tent, and you're getting rained on or something? blister on your heel and you've run out of band aids, but I never

Jamie  

never went that route.

I just I don't know. I

Jamie  

should have said I have. It's just that life is good today. One day at a time. Life is good in this moment. Yeah. Needs more. It needs more laughs Good. Sometimes

Christy  

some Yes. Life is good. Sometimes.

SaraEllen

Anyway, it's the outdoors is not just for granolas nature, environmentalism is not just for greenies. Because, I mean, unless you just want to live in a space station. You're an environmentalist, because you're part of the environment. Now,

Jamie  

I think we all can agree. All three of us. I mean, we've discussed, you know, nature and being outside and how much it does for us emotionally, mentally, physically. I work from home and have for eight years now. So there are days where I find myself, I literally didn't leave the house except to go get my kid from school. And I just go outside and breathe for five minutes. And my it just changes my whole mentality state. How I feel walking back in the house. It's huge. It's huge. And my mother in law who passed last year, we always call her our favorite hippie because she truly was literally a tree hugger. I mean, I have pictures when my kids were born physically hugging trees when they couldn't even stand yet. And it's just I go out for walks now and go for runs and I have to stop and literally touch the trees. I have to touch them taking off my shoes and walking in the grass and feeling the ground. Because it grounds me Yeah, it grounds me and it changes my whole perspective, perception attitude, everything for the day. And the trees love it when you do that. I feel they do. I really do.


SaraEllen

All the plant all the plants breathe what we exhale. That's true. Yeah. And there's some cool books, um, Secret Life of Plants, the hidden life of trees were scientists again. Really, they I should send them like a gift basket after

Jamie  

any scientists want to chime in.

Christy  

Yeah, collective scientists.

SaraEllen

The plants communicate with each other that communicate with us not in the ways that we do. I mean, some people would be like, Oh, well, you know, if plants are so smart, you know why why didn't they create zoom? And I'm like, well, the plants probably sit around going, bitch we don't need we're good.

Marlena  

Good. Christy. I know there were you. You had read her book? And there were a few questions. Yeah,

Christy  

so um, yeah, there was a lot in your book that really resonated with me a lot. I know we have talked about the feminine masculine energy but one thing with people pleasing in your book and I'm gonna quote you people pleasing is actually at times an overdrive masculine energy because it is trying to control how other people think of you by doing things that you think they want you to do. So I never associated people pleasing Yeah, with masculine energy and it is one of the things that I have I am trying to break right break free of so that like I was like, what I was like, is that oh, k right. And then I didn't know what to do with that information.

SaraEllen

Yeah, and your reaction is fine because sometimes sometimes it just is good to to read something that kind of shocks you but kind of dial this back and spread it out and let's look at this. So the good little student their little students syndrome, oh, you can be not only can you be a bikini model, but you can also cure cancer here so be really good. And so like she grows up right and She sees that she can excel in this world that was historically just where the men hung out, he can be one of them. And, you know, or practice law or you know, or own a business or whatever. And so life can feel like you're getting a syllabus, and you have to check all the boxes before the end of the semester, or something bad will happen. Like, you won't get a good grade,

Christy  

you won't get that A plus, you won't get that A plus.

SaraEllen

And so when smart women are people pleasing, and feel like, Okay, I gotta do a good job, I got to do a really good job, I gotta get an A plus every time, you know, I have to be the best. We're mentally trying to live up to a patriarchal mental frame that says Normal is male, and good is male. And I have a sense that I'm in a place that I didn't, I wouldn't, I wasn't going to be allowed to be in, you know, 100 years ago. And so in order to perform, I need to be like them, they don't tell us how to be ourselves. It took me a while, and I figured it out how to sort of reclaim, reclaim the whole space for myself and take up space in my own way. And when we're people pleasing, we're kind of afraid that we're not allowed to take up space in our own way in that place. Because it's theirs. Yeah, it's kind of like, I don't know, driving through rural areas and like, stopping off and going into some, you know, roadside bar. It's like the West movie. You know, we're like the wreck, everybody looks at, you know, stops and everyone turns around, and they're barstool in there go

Jamie  

around here.

SaraEllen

Yeah, we have a bit of that sort of anxiety throughout our whole experience, just because the generational traumas of trying to break in to where we have just mentioned, right to be, even if even if all along, you've had people in your life, say you can be anything you want. As a women these days, it doesn't erase that for, you know, the last couple 1000 years prior to your relatively short time to date on the planet. There was a different message, it's still very much like, yeah, you can be here as long as you act like,

Jamie  

wow, that could really break off into a lot of tangents that we've spoke about before. I'm like, my mind, my mind is going to not only that, and now you're competing, you have women in competition, and then you have the sense of impostor feelings. And then you have on like, wow, we've been fucked for a long time.

SaraEllen

For me, the women in competition thing is it's like, it's like a it's like a weird reality show where you put it's like the backyard or something where everyone's competing for the one spot. Okay, who gets rows? You know? Yeah, it's so is

Marlena  

and but women have been pitted up against each other for centuries? Yes. Right.

Jamie  

I was just gonna say it almost feels like a battlefield. Right? So we've we've come from this level of where we've been, you know, pushed back, you can't do this, you can't do that. Now we're slowly being brought into these roles where we can start doing things, we can start voting, we can start working, we can start doing these things. Well, there's not enough roles for women that are being brought into these, these situations. So now we have to compete with each other, because I want it and you want it and well, I gotta be better than you. So kind of grows from this. We have to compete, we have to compete. And I feel like we're evolving now. Especially with your feminine energy teachings and learnings. I feel like we're evolving into this, this place of we need to lift each other up. And I hope and I think we all see that kind of shifting now. Even though women and competition and all that is still very prevalent. A lot of us are gaining that perspective. We don't need to compete with each other, we want to be in the same place. Let's be in the same place the same space together. So there's, there's oil for all of us. There really is I mean, we still kind of have to fight for thing exactly in the male sense of it. Right, still competing with men for roles that we should be equally No, have. But the women side of it. I feel like it's finally transitioning. And I hope if it keeps going that way, anyway, it's kind of a tangent. But as you're saying that those are all the things popping in my head, that have spurred from us not having these opportunities for so long. Right? 

SaraEllen

Well, and it's because when there were only so many spots for women, the female centric values of cooperation, and a circle communication, interdependence, those things, they weren't the culture of the space, so you're walking into some other Big and like you're having to convert, you know, from Imperial to metric. And what do you do? Yeah, well, when in Rome, you know you so you act that way. And then you get more women in. And it's a bunch of women sort of setting aside consciously or not a lot of their feminine power. Yeah, and sort of putting on the suit of the masculine kind of power and kind of a really not a great version of the masculine power either. This is not like everything I've said today is not like blaming men, it's like, a lot of this is not good for men, either. It's because it's not like, yeah, empowered, masculine energy that is being exhibited in a lot of these places. But you know what, like, if you find yourself in a situation where you feel like the women are wanting to throw you under the bus, or they're being toxic, or they're not being cooperative, or they're talking behind your back, or whatever, or they, they throw all these sort of super competitive kind of aggro sort of vibes your way, you can just feel it, you're just like, the best thing you can do is realize the part of you that is wounded in that moment, because you're not getting a mother or sister vibe from her that you want to get. Or if it's, you know, mother's sister daughter, like, you're not getting this sort of that vibe from her in the moment. And then the moment you do that, it reframes what you're seeing with that other woman, you're, then you're like, then you have compassion, because you're seeing that she's not being real.

Jamie  

Yeah, that this is a wound. And that's sort of the next sort of thing that then you're, you're seeing, you're seeing her in her power you're seeing under that is a powerful woman who authentically would show up different, right, yeah, and so then you're no longer taking the bait, and you, you, you shift your own stance relative to her, and then that relationship will shift or it will go away, typically, and it might take time. And you don't have to do it perfectly, always that caveat, as far as I looked into some of your blogs, and one that really sat with me, and I have my notes in front of me as I read it, but it's the Why are professional women quiet quitting. And that really sat with me, because there's one quote, I'm just, I'm gonna say this one real quick, when you stop pursuing only what you've been told to want, and start allowing yourself to have what you want, you stop second guessing yourself, and start enjoying life. And that one really sat with me because I think we have been told the set expectations, like you said, checking all the boxes, you know, you have to do this, you have to do that you have to be the good little girl or the, you know, have your manners do what you're told all the things. And so when you feel like you've failed, or you didn't accomplish something, you start wondering, okay, what am I doing? Am I supposed to be doing this and even in, like your own job roles. For me, I found I've had a successful career. But I've never been this. I don't want to say high achieving, but I'm not I'm not in a doctor. I'm not a scientist, I'm not some politician who's doing these amazing things on Capitol Hill, I have been in the auto industry, and I've made a successful career with it. But there are definitely times where I'm questioning is it? Is it enough? Am I doing enough? Am I not proving myself as I should be? As a woman? Should I be doing more? Should I be excelling more? And then of course, within the jobs, you know, am I in the right place? And do I just need to to like step away? Is this toxic? Is it. So I'm constantly questioning where I'm supposed to be? Because I've been told this is what you're supposed to do. So I just really found that interesting, that article. And I'm sorry, again, I'm reading my notes because I wrote down some questions. But having the stability of a job when that stability starts to outweigh your joy, no matter the cost, because I've stayed in jobs because of stability. Not because I wanted to be there, but because it's a paycheck. But how does one start that journey of changing that mindset and truly finding joy, again, with whatever job they're doing, whether you are a waitress, or you are a surgeon? I mean, when, when when How do you start shifting that mindset, if that makes sense. 

SaraEllen

It can take a while. I think the first step is forgiving yourself for all of the bargains that you made to be sitting where you are, wherever that is. That's so huge. Like, I mean, we're too we're all too hard on ourselves, and then we're hard on ourselves. We're being hard on ourselves. And like, we're so you know, we put so much pressure on ourselves to be Wonder Woman and then we're like, you know, am I wonder woman enough today? And it's like, I think that First thing is to err, then you wake up and you're like, wow, I sacrificed so much to become Wonder Woman and, and now I'm going to beat myself up because some of it was inauthentic along the way. Right? Right. And it's like, if you were to recast yourself as the heroine of the story and and see, the whole thing is a movie, like the movie of your life. And all the decisions you made it times you did make these decisions, because someone said, This is what you have to be to be a good person, this is what you have to be to have a respectable career, if you don't have a respectable career, you're going to be living in a cardboard box, under the, you know, the I 90 Overpass, or whatever. Like, we all have these sorts of reasons. And sometimes some of them are people pleasing. And sometimes some of them are really genuine. And some of the things are a mixture. We're all complex creatures, we have complex reasons for the past, we take. And if we can look back on it, and not make ourselves wrong, even for any of the reasons that we would not repeat, we were doing the best with our resources at the time, always, always, we're doing our best with we're making the best choice we think we have available to us at the time. And you know, hindsight is 2020. And then the next step is like you look at where you are, and you're like, Okay, do I really choose this career? And if so, do I have to make any major edits or remodeling to it? To make it suit me? Oh, my gosh, yes, I went through the same kind of thing. Like about two years into my law career, I was like, I don't know about this. And so and I was doing criminal defense, which was a bad fit. For me, it was just a little too grisly for me. And so I didn't know what to do with myself, because other than, you know, the trade of law and the particular niche that I that I knew at that point. My other skills were like, singing, dancing, and hair and makeup, and, you know, costumes. That was my world goals, you know, the editor. And so I was like, Well, what am I gonna do with my life. And so, I went, worked for nonprofits for a couple years, and got to the point where I realized, you know, I do want to practice law, not just being the sort of, like, nice to have a JD kind of jobs, but like, actually go to court and represent people. And I had to figure out how to make it work for me. And there's, there's this really famous, very successful, really lovely, hilarious weight loss coach in the Life Coach School community. And her name is Corinne Crabtree, and she's, she lost 100 pounds, by doing only things that she'd be willing to do for the rest of her life. And I love that idea. Because even though I couldn't put it that succinctly for myself at the time, that's basically what I did. I was like, Well, okay, I'm going to be a lawyer, but it's going to be in a way that I would be willing to do for the rest of my life. And I didn't know what that looked like, but I just knew that I was going to have to find it. And so I started solo practice, and I did what you call door law, which is anything that walks in the door, although I didn't do any I, I had a rule, I wasn't going to do any more criminal defense or family. So I ended up only taking tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, not much of that. And it was, you know, the universe really does align, it does reflect you, when you suddenly become open, then you see things that were not there before period. And so then I stumbled upon consumer protection work, and then I've been doing it ever since. And, you know, it's like, a careers like a suit, like you find the one that finally works for you. And then you might need to tailor a bit over time. And so I've continued to, you know, to do that, and at this point, you know, moving like Justin to trial consulting, and not taking you clients under my shingle that are just, you know, solely my clients, because you're allowed to change your mind. Yeah, you mature like you your life is an ongoing novel, you know, with with no end until it's done, you know, and so I think that this is a deep dive principle that Bev Erin, the the master coach who trained me, deep dive, this is a huge thing that is probably one of the biggest things I've gotten from her and that is to never make yourself wrong. Wow.

Christy  

I read that in your book. I pulled that out. Because you said in your book, do not make yourself wrong for how you really feel. You will start to see that you can have all kinds of feelings at once and it's okay.

SaraEllen

We all have days where we hate our job, yes, that's part of it, right? And then, you know, there are times in our lives where we, we have done things where we're like, you know what, this does not spark joy, but I have reasons for doing it. And you can, as long as you don't make yourself wrong for those reasons, and you just, you're very self aware about those reasons, and you own those reasons, then, then the hard thing will be over faster. Yes, you'll be more resourceful in how you handle it. And then opportunities that you weren't seeing before it will start to come into view.

Jamie  

I love it. I love it. I've struggled with my career in the last few years. So it's been a transitional year for me in my situation. So yeah, that speaks a lot to me. So thank you. Like, wow, okay, maybe I'm doing something right. This is awesome. Yes, this is this is great. And it's not always gonna feel good. Exactly. It's because there are times where it feels really bad. It doesn't mean it's going badly, actually. And there are days where I'm like, did I make the right decision, but then I step back and look at the overall picture and the big picture and, you know, where am I most days? How do I feel? What do my days look like? And am I able to do the things that I still want? And in the end? Yeah, I feel like I'm in the right place. So but kind of just jumping in real quick, because I know there are we talked about your flower essence training. And there's another one that you offer, which I found very interesting, which is the style of coaching. I, again, working from home for so long, I tend to live in yoga pants and T shirts, most days, and I am that Saturday night person that sometimes ends up at the grocery store in said pajamas, because I work that day, and I didn't change. So this really hit me because I feel like I've lost my sense. I don't ever thought I had a style, let's be honest. But I feel like I've lost my sense of style and the idea of how much it really does reflect on our own energy out and impacts us mentally. So just if you want to touch on that a little bit, I found it fascinating because I don't know if I think about style that much. And that really hit me.

SaraEllen

Okay well, don't make yourself wrong. I'm not wrong. But for any of your wardrobe choices, even if you go to Safeway, in a Batman I saw that, okay. I can't unsee it. It's like the feminine energy. I mean, the first, the first thing to acknowledge is that it's always been there, you've never lost it. You just haven't been keeping up your relationship with it. Every woman has a style because she's a woman, we are style. We're beauty Grace dammit. We are. So don't beat yourself up for just neglecting a part of yourself. And you can look at this as an opportunity to literally just dress for your own amusement. Say amusement, not comfort. I like amusement, amusement, not comfort. Because when we dress for comfort, it's not really comfortable. If we feel bad about ourselves in any way about it. Yeah,

Christy  

that is something I have learned working from home is like, just because I'm quote, comfortable. I can also feel like shit, like I like about myself, right? And so in those days, I'm like, get up from the freaking computer and just go put on something that's gonna make you feel good, like make you feel different. And when I do that, my whole my whole outlook changes, you know, but yeah, there is so much energy and it feels draining, you know, when I'm comfortable, but also just feeling like crap, right? Like, you're just so ugly today or whatever it is drained energy. 

SaraEllen

It's like a little rock in your shoe. Yes. I mean, how long are you going to walk around with that rock? Yeah. And very long. You know, we've all had that experience where a stranger told us to smile. And we were like, yeah, like, I don't like anybody telling me what kind of day to have or to smile.

Jamie  

I don't or someone tells us we have resting bitchface right.

SaraEllen

I sometimes have active bitchface. present state of Yes. Out.

Marlena  

Oh, I love that.

SaraEllen

I'm like, I have this. I have this amazing. I have the ski jacket. And it's this bright blue. And whenever I wear the ski jacket, people just want to talk to me. Like they think I'm the nicest, the most approachable woman on the entire mountain hike. Can I sit next to you? And it's not like they're hitting on me or something? It's just kind of like, wow, yeah, you're drawing them in, but it's my one of my power colors. And so even if you don't feel like being any different around people, or even around yourself, you know, in your home office, and I work from home, you find out what your colors are. And yes, it improves your vibration, because then it's in alignment with your energy, literally. And I'm sure the scientists could. But the colors have frequency and colors have vibration. And I mean, I can fall into the rut of wearing a lot of black, you know, out of laziness sometimes, you know, so we all have to, it's not just a static thing of like, Oh, I'm gonna find my style, and we'll find my colors. And then I'm never gonna wear the Batman bathrobe ever again. Like, that's not, it's not a perfection thing, right? But there are touches, there are things that like, okay, so if I were to dress today to amuse myself, and not just be comfortable, what would I wear? And if you don't see it in your closet, go look for it on Pinterest. Yeah, that's true. And then you'll find something. And you can just build it over time. And then you'll start seeing themes. And then you know, you can have you can have somebody work with you on on your colors. You probably but you know, we're women. We're smart. We already know, kind of what those colors are. It can be as simple as like, whenever I wear the scarf, everyone thinks I'm nicer than I really am. That's probably one of your colors. Right? 

Jamie  

Well they want to talk to me when I wear yellow.

SaraEllen

Yeah, yeah. But it's because they're seeing you they're not seeing the color. That's interesting. But when when you're not being really you, we're all seeing the Batman robe.

Jamie  

Everyone has their own Batman robe. 

Christy  

We all have  own version version. I love it.

Marlena  

All right. Do we have anything else? And Sarah Ellen, is there anything that you'd like to touch on?

Jamie  

We've asked a lot.

SaraEllen

I feel like we touched on quite a bit. Right? I could talk all day about all these things.

Marlena  

As can we. Yeah. But we would like to plug you a little bit. Okay. Yeah. So your book, feminine energy feminist. You can get that on Amazon,

SaraEllen

Amazon, and Barnes and Noble. And buy it and get one for your friend and tell your friends.

Christy  

Yeah, it's a great book.

Marlena  

And then you also on your website, you have a number of blogs. I know that was one of the first things I read when we started having a conversation about the podcast. So you can find her blog on her website at lawyer goddess.com. And of course, we'll put all of this information in the show notes. And then again, the different offerings that you have you have the deep dive coaching,

SaraEllen

yeah, I can work with you. The two things I do, they kind of fall along the lines of authority or beauty. They're kind of the parts of feminine energy. And the authority piece is like working with you for three months on building that inner authority. And you can bring anything to the coaching and people who do the flower essences with it, I think, shift faster. Most people do respond. Some people don't be upfront about that. Most people do respond to it, especially if you're already kind of self aware, tuned in person who is open to energy things. And then the style quantum leap. I can work with you on decluttering your closet and figuring out who you really are and expressing that and making it stick. Because at the core, it's really a owning your beauty issue. And it wasn't lost. You just haven't been talking to that part of you. Yeah. And how powerful it would be to be in your authority and be in your beauty every day. I

Jamie  

might have to look into that one. For sure. For sure.

Marlena  

Well, Sarah, Ellen, thank you so much.

SaraEllen

Thanks to all of you. This was lovely, so much fun. 

Jamie  

Thank you, Sarah.

Christy  

Yes, thank you for being with us today and talking about all the things we wanted to talk about because it did run a gamut. But don't forget listeners to follow us on social media and please like, comment and share. And we will be back with you next week. And we can't wait. Thank you