Witchcraft Wisdom: Exploring "A Box of Magick" with Jamie Della

Jamie Della

SPEAKERS

Marlena, Jamie, Jamie Della, Christy

Christy  

Hello, hello, hello to all of our listeners. This is a new episode of a witch, a mystic and a feminist. Today on the show, we are privileged to have Jaime Della. She is a priestess, a healer, a witch and an author and her 10th book is coming out is called a box of magic which we discuss, as well as her upbringing and just smatterings of other things. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

Marlena  

So, Jamie, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. You have a book coming out on September 26, a book of magic, which I can't wait to get into because I love the story behind that. But I'd love to give our audience a little background about you. So you've always identified as a witch, correct?

Jamie Della  

Correct. It's always just been my lifestyle I have been surrounded growing up, people will always say Well, what was your first pagan Shabbat and I could say I went to my first holiday in my 20s but because my grandmother had died the month before I was born I was always speaking to the spirit world she was never gone for me she was my grandma Coco ya know, in a way except for she was Della. That's her name is Della. So that's how that became my name. And then as my middle name and then a few years ago, I got rid of all the patriarchy and made her name my last name as kind of like this nod to the divine feminine and to the matchy archy and to Goddess energy. So I had that going on. And my other grandmother was a Psychic Tarot reader. So everything was decided by numerology or astrology are what the cards would tell us. And then a lot of you know holding your jewelry and doing doing the readings that way. And so and then it was also had Christian sciences, my upbringing. So that was a lot of mental magic, a lot of ability of faith healing and knowing that you can have that mind over matter. I mean, that was given to me when I was four years old. Every Sunday, I learned how to fine tune my mind to create the life that I wanted. Because it wasn't just about healing your body or healing a physical sickness, it was emotional sicknesses, such as anger or unforgiveness, and really learning how to work through all of that the practice of your mind. And then I had a Mexican mama. So you have ritual, you have magic you have it's already all there. So I think that's why we've always called witchcraft, the nameless arts because you're doing it and practicing it long before you even know quote, unquote, what it is, you know. So that's, that's kind of that's my upbringing. And I've just always been, we started with a group of girls doing house blessings and baby blessings throughout the 20s. And then, I remember one of the neatest things is my friends and I, we threw runes for the first pregnant mama, like the first of us to get pregnant. So we threw rooms for the baby. And the ones that didn't turn over, she's like, I'm not gonna look at those because that's her journey, and not mine. And I thought, oh, that's,

Marlena  

yeah. Seriously,

Jamie Della  

yeah, I was really proud of that. Because I feel like there's so many magical principles that are just part of that every day that we do as witchy women, you know, and that's one of them is respecting other people's journeys, you know, because we have our own. That's the most exciting and frightening aspect of being a witch is you are your own best teacher, you're the one who knows if you need Citrine, or lavender, nobody else does.

Jamie  

Yeah, I just have to say real quick. I love that you pulled in your Christian side upbringing of it, because I know all of us here have experienced religious type upbringing. And I think all of us were Christian and Catholic here. And I like how that was part of it. Because I think so much people think it's either or you can't be Catholic. You can't be Christian, and be a practicing witch like you. That's just that's, that's forbidden. But I love how you incorporated that. I think that's beautiful.

Jamie Della  

Yeah. And you know, Christian Science was founded by a woman, it was always a father, mother, God, it wasn't just a Father God. And it was this idea that the way they explained it to us in Sunday's culture, was that if the divine source is the son, that each of us are individual arrays, so we're still connected to the sun, but we have our own experience expressing ourselves on the countryside, the rambling countryside, you know, that's our light energy that never leaves the source and is always all connected to everybody else. But we have the I don't know if I want to say at the right, but just this we've made to express our divine essence. That's the whole point of being here is to be our unique selves, not to be a carbon copy of anybody else.

Christy  

I love them. Yeah. And that's kind of a departure from regular religion. Right. So I can see how that would really play into and work with your witchy side. witchiness

Jamie Della  

Yeah, `I mean, it was a really witchy version. I don't know if you Mary Baker Eddy would agree with you but but I found that it was because I mean, I was in I remember I was 10 years old those in Sunday school and the teacher was trying to explain to us the difference between spirit and soul. Because in this teaching, there are seven synonyms for the Divine Source, principle, mind, soul, spirit, life, truth and love. Those are the aspects, the characteristics of the Divine Source, according to this religion, and the idea of spirit and soul spirit being your unique expression, soul being your everlasting aspect. So she was telling us that all of the world is made up more of that even that hostages in Iran, were okay. And I said, do you mean they're having tea with their family? They just don't know it like, yeah, you mean? Yeah, no. And she said, Well, they're, their souls can never be harmed that everlasting part of themselves, that is always connected to the Divine Source. Whatever life experience we go through that soul is just learning things and growing through our spirits expression, and that everything in this world is more made of thought than material. And so she said, so I said, do you mean this table right here, that if I believed more in the energy of this table, rather than the matter of the table, that I could pass my hand through it? And she said, Yes. So I was like I waited till she did. So she turned away, it was talking to some other students. And I mean, I've never done this before. But 10 years old, I completely suspended disbelief and pass my hand through the tabletop. And for me, that's a level of miracle. And you know, what we always talk about, we believe that's true, but we don't do it ourselves, per se. So for me from that moment forward, that Christian upbringing gave me the concept of miracles that I could perform them, not just that they existed in the world, but that whatever you call it, miracle, or magic, or witchcraft, or healing, whatever you might call it, it doesn't really matter, because the energy is the same. Wow. Tell me more. Well, yeah, maybe there's one time I just sent this fairy portal, I don't know, if you ladies have ever had that experience, you know, whatever it is, maybe in a forest or some backyard or visiting Sedona, and this vortex is wherever you might be in the world. There are places that are portals, you know, to other worlds and other places. And I felt we had one in our backyard. And this was like, way back in the 90s. When when the self esteem prophecy, I don't know if you ever remember reading that book where you would put your four fingers together and look for the energy between the two. So you'd put your point, okay, thank you. I'm like, Come on girls.

Marlena  

But yeah, you're sitting there and you're you're pushing and you actually feel the energy in between, you can

Jamie Della  

feel the energy and if you're lucky, because you can see the little fibers of, you know, light. And so that happened to me one time where the and then I saw my aura, shoot over my finger, that bright green of the prism. And I thought, Oh, my God, what was that. And then I felt the energy of Pan Behind me that the God the Spirit of vegetation, and I had no idea who this huge energy was. And then the very next day, someone was talking about the Findhorn foundation in Scotland, where in the 60s, they did all this planting and gardening with only their intention to give to the plants and receive from the plant. So it was this very strong symbiotic relationship that ended up growing 10 foot tall foxgloves and 40 pound broccoli because of our connection. And because of the reciprocity and the respect that they were giving the plant life and recognizing the pan energy. So then she says, Pam, I'm like, I met him, like, you know, yeah, like the barista at Starbucks. Me and Pam, were body friendly love

Marlena  

about that, though, also is that that situation happened. And then the next day, you get the sign from the universe, like, this is what that was. And that's kind of how things have been happening, especially lately for me, is I get a sign and I'm like, I know that's a sign not quite sure what that means. And then the next day or a couple of days later, it's like, oh

Jamie Della  

Exactly. And I do feel like magic works that way that you are given something a tool, a message and omen and your faith to follow it. Like you have to take those steps before the reason will be there where and that's kind of hard because most people want to know like, Okay, I'm looking both ways before I cross the street because there's a cars that are coming. Like, we want to know why we're doing the thing we're doing, you know, but in magic, you just get to do it. You just get a message and you're like, okay,

Marlena  

yeah, I'll follow that. And that's what I've been trying to do a lot more lately is just to following the breadcrumbs that the universe keeps throwing out at me. It's like okay, but yeah, So that really resonated with me within. That's so cool. Yeah. So you are an author of nine books with your 10th coming out? When did you first author

Jamie Della  

your first book in 2000? Thanks. And by the way, thanks for all your questions and having me on board. I really want to express my gratitude. We appreciate you being here. Thank you. Yes. Yeah.

Jamie  

So excited.

Jamie Della  

So my first book came out in 2000. And what happened was, I had begun attending pagan Sebata. And I was working for a literary agent as her assistant. And so basically, and I'm not sure if the publishing industry works the same way. But the editors see the trends, right? They're the ones who because you write a book, and it's like two years later that comes out by the time the production and the editing and you go through everything it takes a while so they're seeing it just like in I always think of like The Devil Wears Prada when she's like that blue color you're wearing. Do you know that that came from Baba Baba, Baba Baba, you know, that? I don't think so the same thing is true with books, they can see what's on the horizon. We're back loaded with vampire books, that's not going to be the thing we you know, we need to move on to fairies or whatever it is. So in 2000, Wicca was beginning to have it a little revival, it was starting to get stronger. So there was an editor who sent out like a buckshot email, if they even had emails, or phone calls. For somebody to write a wicked cookbook, and my literary agent who I was just your assistant, but she saw in me that ability, and she said, I think you can do this. And so I also enlisted the help of my sister in law, Tara Seefeld. And she was an early modern European historian, okay, because I felt that at that point, it was still very new agey, right, like it was very kind of a theoretic, and, you know, bringing in Wicked witchcraft was like, Ooh, what's that? You know, versus it was more flashy, I think, than anything else. And so I wanted to bring in that history to show that this is a viable historic way of living. And, and so I also put it around the seasons, because at the time, the farm to table Farm to Fork movement was just getting started. So I could go to booksigning tours, and be in a mainstream place and explain Wicca through seasonal eating. Oh, yeah, that's lovely. And so I could say like, you know how it is when you get a tomato out of the garden, versus the one that was plucked early and you found in the grocery store, it just tastes different? Because there's more lifeforce in it. That's witchcraft. We work with the lifeforce and all things, including our food, and as are part of our practice, and our herbal medicine, and even the crystals that come from the earth. If you can carbon date, certain things in the earth and crystals are clearly alive. And so you're working with that lifeforce energy in all things, even in speaking to the idea of animism, even in this idea that rivers have a consciousness that trees have their own consciousness, and we were sciences now discovering what we mysterious witchy women have known for a very long time that the tree really does hug you back, that when the wind really does long to play in your hair, that the Earth does it for the bottom of your feet. That was the way that I could describe it in 2000. And then, you know, 911 happened. And by that point, I had two books that came out, and I felt like oh, my god, like it was like the Get Smart, where they all the doors slam, if you remember way back when, you know, like, it was like, Oh, my God, all the doors slammed. And I was like I never wanted my block. I already knew I was a witch. So I just like took soap to the back of my car note, which is he'll and just went out bigger and bolder rather than hiding because I figured I was already out of the broom closet. And the best way was just to go forward not to like, go oh, sorry, don't get mad at me. I know that all the Christian coalition is super strong right now. And you'd really like to squash me, but I'm very nice. So yeah, so that was the first one. And it was basically I wanted to read it because we would go to pagan spots were potlucks and I noticed at the time a lot of the pagans that I at least were hanging out with were not very healthy eaters. I mean, they'd bring Kentucky Fried Chicken to a Beltane ritual. I'm like I don't get it.

Christy  

Think there's a disconnect? Yeah,

Jamie Della  

and so that's why I wanted to include the food as part of this is how we celebrate because I believe nature is our guide for living a magical life. So in Fall we release in winter we rest in spring we birth and in summer, we bloom right and all those fruits and vegetables are kind of really doing that same thing. You know, we have our root vegetables in the winter and where they're going underground and all that evidence of how to flow in the consciousness. The collective consciousness is really how we could maximize our spells like we'll talk about that, you know, the waning moon or a waxing moon and, and you could always make it work for you like if you're trying to get rid of a relationship, and it's not a waning moon. It's a waxing moon. You just focus on strengthening your Your own inner self and loving who you are and vibrating at that energy that anyone who doesn't appreciate yourself the same way that you do that they will just fall away, you can always find some way to work with the energy that's going. And I feel like that's the magic that's so important because otherwise, you're going upstream from a current, right versus putting your raft in and saying, This is where the energy is going. This is the Fall Equinox, this is the time to let go of what doesn't serve me. And if you can continue to work with nature, I feel that our lives become there's less obstacles, there's, there's more of what we want to manifest, and really beginning to trust that it's okay to have that life that you've manifested all your goodness. And if other people don't resonate with you, maybe their vibration isn't as high as yours. And that's okay.

Marlena  

I love listening to you. Because you make everything seem so simple, you know, and easy to understand. Because a lot of times when I have spoken to other people or former mentors and things like that, it seemed so vast. And so I really like how you're simplifying it to where people can really understand. And it's like, oh, yeah, that totally makes sense. So thank you for that. Yeah,

Jamie Della  

I guess that's the 23 years. Yeah. It paid off. I was like, When is this gonna pay off already? Yeah. Because you're, you're pretty marginalized. No raising children. Thankfully, I raised them, they went to a Waldorf School, where animism is part of the education. You know, they only play with wooden toys, because that tree was alive at some point, or silks because of the silkworms or beeswax crayons or just whatever it is, because it's difficult to stand up as a witch as a public, which for so long, and still feel good about yourself, because there's not rotten tomatoes. But you know, when I would be doing book signings people would, if I was in a public place, they would cover their kids ears, if I said the word which like I just said, Yeah, you know, or something like that. It was so hard. But one time, I was at a book signing event, and someone walked by and said, Oh, how to cook witches. And they saw the wicked cookbook, and there was just, it was constant, it was constant, like, things that we wouldn't expect now to happen to us. But for us witches who are out there, you know, waving our broomsticks around, you know, way back then it was because we could write you know, because we had the conviction. So you just do it as long as you can. And then you hand over the baton to somebody else. That's what I did. I wrote 10 books, the first from 2000 to 2010. And then I took a break, because I was like, Oh, I've been running this marathon a while and then came back, you know, a couple years ago, like, wait a minute, there's which talk now like late, right? Yeah, I'm living in the mountains. You know, the publisher came back to me a while ago and said, Would you like to update your teen spellbook or a wider audience? I'm like, is there a wider audience? I had no idea because I was just still doing my thing. You know, hanging the pentacle outside, and there's a gal that lives across the street, she has her Christian Bible study, and you know, and here I am with my witchy flag fly piano in a very Christian blank little community. And you know, I find that that's always been my goal is to bridge that understanding and find the language that's the same, you know, and yes, they have the bigger language, they have more people. So why wouldn't you? I mean, you could fight it the whole time. And say, No, a spell a spell, or you could say, you know, a spell, it's like a prayer in 3d. And they're like, what it was like, well, and then you go with another mainstream example with the It's A Wonderful Life. When Donna Reed holds up the salt may you always have flavor of housewarming blessing and hold up the bread man, you never be hunger holds up the wind, man, you always know joy and prosperity. Well, that's a spell, right? Yeah, no, and we spell our words out, we it's just means to cast our word, you know? And someone asked me recently, like, Well, what about the people that still don't believe? And I said, I want to tell them, you've been believing in propaganda, right for years of propaganda. So do you want to meet a witch and think for yourself? Or do you want to just go ahead and keep rotating the propaganda and the story and I really believe that what we have as a community really embracing the marginalized with our African Americans with gender fluidity, that that same energy is helping witches because we cannot marginalize and ostracize and take all the power anymore without recognizing who we're stepping on right and I hope that at some point, even people who are afraid will begin to look at witchcraft is the craft of the wise because which means why is because we follow nature. That's it. So that so

Jamie  

I feel like we've all talked about this before but do you feel like it's it is it's kind of making a comeback again, right? People are embracing it more people are wanting more. I think after the pandemic, mindfulness, being more connected seems to be a lot more out there and discussed, and people searching for inner peace and calm and and being more connected to the earth, and I feel like it's really like you said after 911 It kind of surfaced again. Now it's like, here we are again, after a pandemic. Yeah, yeah,

Jamie Della  

I think it's because we realized, well, you know, I mean, like I said it was Christian Science I never did. So with the with them with the Western medicine, I was like, Oh, is that what you're doing? Now? You didn't know. I mean, I had to ask, what does it decongestant? Do when my kids were little? They're like, what do you think of like, oh, I can like do the etymology of that one and figure it out. But I feel like with the pandemic taught us is individualization like, you have to take your own health care. Like, if you got COVID, you know, you could just lay there and take the medicine, you know, but if it wasn't that bad, you might be able to do a facial steam, or go and take a hot shower and do more self care to bring yourself because a lot of times it was nothing to do but masking the symptoms. Right? But how do we build our immune system as we were talking earlier, Marlena, like how do we strengthen that immune system, and it's not just the foods we eat, but how much stress we put ourselves center? You know, and I feel like a lot of that people are beginning to see that our lives, whether it's our health, or our emotional state, it's an inside job, we cannot take a pill that someone gives us and have it all go away. Right? And so I feel like that individualization is what made people start to say, Well, wait a minute, that how do I take care of myself more? I love or maybe it was the earth reaching out to us, because I really believe that it's not just us that reaches out for the Yarrow or the lavender or our Amethyst or whatever. I believe that that consciousness is reaching out to us, because the plant energy has much to gain by keeping this world still here. Yeah, yeah. And sort of the crystals. So if they can speak to us, and we can hear them, then I'm a body worker. So do massage, and I have my display. And I'll just reach out and go, Oh, lemongrass wanted to play with you today. You know, and I, and then they'll be like, what does that represent? And you know, I could tell them the different things. So like, oh, my gosh, that's what I need it. So these are our allies, and we're never alone in witchcraft. And I feel like that's another thing that really helps people. And that's one of the things that social media did too, because people couldn't learn. I mean, they said, when my books are in the library, they're like, the witchcraft books are the ones that are the most stolen books.

Marlena  

Because nobody wanted to openly check out or ask

Jamie Della  

your mom, or ask him about 13. Can I? Can I live in witchcraft? Yes,

Jamie  

can I be openly witchy?

Marlena  

I was gonna ask you, do you think that social media had a lot to do with that? Because like with tick tock and things like that, you have these tarot readings, and you have people talking about crystals, and you have people talking about herbs and different spells? And do you think that that had a lot to do with bringing this out more into the forefront?

Jamie Della  

Absolutely. I believe it really did. My only concern is I took classes. I didn't read memes to learn witchcraft, right on memes have no experience. Mentors do right, you know, and I feel like, yes, this made the nameless arts more accessible, which is fantastic, because it really is your own craft. But it's not enough to memorize all the correspondences of the color blue, or whatever it is, you know, and I feel like, that's kind of a missing component, because I feel like sometimes there's this showing off of like, okay, it's llama, these are all the things you do. There's a full moon here, all the things you do, and but it's like, okay, you do all those things. But how does it affect you? You've made Moon water now, they'll be like, now what do you do? You know, I like to clean my alters with Moon water. I like to clean my finance with Moon water. Yeah, exactly. And so we have all these different things that we do, but it's like when you clean it with Moon water, and let's say it's a full moon in leo. Okay, so you're gonna have Leo energy. Do you want that on your front door? Or do you want that somewhere else? Like, really being conscious about how all these correspondences interplay with each other, just like ingredients in a spaghetti sauce, right? Like you have a regular one thing you have rosemary, you have all these things, but when you put them together, or for me, I think of like Ratatouille, right? When he's holding the two things and like the cheese and the fruit, he eats it together. That synergy that outcome is where the magic happens. So I don't think you can ever memorize the correspondences enough to know that and it's not enough to memorize and have it be a rote memorization, but how does it live in you? Yeah. And that each plant becomes when you work with them, they become plant allies and if I think like if you went you went to the store and you came up with like 18 different herbs. That's like the old woman in the chute you have too many children you don't know what to do. You have to make friends with them individually find out what each one means to you and how it responds to you. And I mean, just recently I had I collected a bunch of Yarrow and Yarrow is a wound healer. And I had it on my desk and then there was this dragonfly necklace that somehow got stuck in all the euro. So for me, I don't just go oh look, my necklace found its way into the euro. I think oh my gosh, the dragonfly a symbol of illusion has found itself buried in healer energy. So the illusion that it's taken so damn long for witchcraft to get popular again, you know is buried in the wound healing plant. So it's an opportunity for me to look at this and say, this is the perfect time this is the divine timing is now if this is when it needed to happen, this is when you are ready. This is when the listener is ready. This is when the world is ready for us to embrace our own power. And to see that magic is literally everywhere we choose to live.

Jamie  

I am literally like mesmerized right now like I am just I am just in awe, like, she's speaking you're like, Oh my God. And, and I hear you talking about like all the different herbs and and so that's where my brain goes, I get overwhelmed. I need to know all the things and know do all the things. And that's why I looked at tick tock and stuff. And then I think no, this can't be like I need more. You can't just say in one minute, do all these things. And then guess what you're you're like, Ah now like, no, no, I need to know all the things. But then I get I go down the rabbit hole. And then before you know it, I'm just like, okay, that's just too much. It's just too much. And I need the backup. So you were talking about all those herbs and just everything that you have too much. And I think that's where myself and I think a lot of our listeners, they want to embrace it so much and just be a part of it. And then you get overwhelmed and you're just shut down because you're like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm can't do this.

Jamie Della  

Well, you know, we used to say you had to be a year in a day was your practice before you call yourself a witch. This was old school way of doing it, right. And the reason being is because you look at Halloween, or souren. One wave if you feel the calling to be a witch at 15. It's another thing at 25 and everything at 40. And never thing at 55. And other thing, it's 70 because it lives in you. So we can't download it, right? It's not a thing. You can't download puberty, right? Like, yeah, just go like, that's, that's BS, I'm just gonna download it. And then I'll know everything I wish, I wish. But I think that's the thing is because there needs to be an out breath and an in breath. So for example, like your your out breath might be your expression of it, and your in breath is learning things. And then you try experimenting with whatever or, you know, how does red clover tea tastes today? Like, you know, does it work for me, whatever herb you're looking at are crystal. And then you have an introspection time. And then experiential, and then introspection, and it's this really, it's an ebb and flow. And that is really what witchcraft is about. So, you know, I just bought, I've been practicing now for 25 years, or about 3025, somewhere in there. Anyways, I just got an ask me recently, like, you don't have to get all the tools. You know, for the longest time I just used my two fingers, I didn't need a knife. And then I found one, or it found me, you know. And so I feel like I appreciate Jamie that rush of like the desire to just, you know, imagine having five lovers at the same time. It's like that, like you want to experience and kind of like revel in the relationship between you and the individual plants and make a friendship with them or the herbs with a crystal. I mean, we're the crystals or your magical tools or your drum or whatever it is that you have, you know, you want to have a relationship with them. And you can't skip that part as much as we might want.

Jamie  

On that note in my desire to learn and being so excited for today's interview, I did purchase your spell crafting one on one. So

Jamie Della  

that was Jamie

Jamie  

very excited. And I purchased it on our way to Zion yesterday, we did a river float the kids before they start school on Monday and a few other families and it's so different when you go out into these places with different eyes. So this is just at the tip of Zion where we're like at the very beginning of Zion, we haven't really gone into the park. But we've done this float for a couple of years and just it's such a simple float and everyone's having a good time and it's great but coming into it this year with new eyes if you will was like I could feel the leaves blowing I could feel the rivers power pulling us through to our destination even the rocks and the bumps and everything was just like oh hello like you know, it was just different this time. I don't I know you guys can relate. But yeah, just it was just gorgeous. It was gorgeous. It was so fun to be out there and the kids had a great time and I was so excited because on my way purchased your spellcraft one on one I'm like okay, I am going all in And let's let's, let's do this. So,

Jamie Della  

yeah, well, I think so I mean, I think when you hear you start to hear the vibration of the, we all speak this energetic vibrational language, you could walk into a room and feel for anyone who doesn't think they can. Let me give you an example. Because you can walk into a room and know if there's tension, right? You can walk into a room and know if there's joy. Anybody can do this, because our language is 80% nonverbal, right? And so therefore, we know by all those cues were the vibe is at. And that's the same thing when you go out into nature. And you can feel that conversation of the river and the rocks that wanted to say hello, and like the current and the leaves and everything being alive and just speaking to you, like, look at me, look at me, look

Jamie  

at me. Yeah, voices all around you. Yeah. So

Marlena  

I wanted to find out, you know, you have this vast knowledge of witchcraft. Was that something you learned on your own? Or did you have a mentor mentors? And can you go into that a little bit? Because we were talking? Yeah, just brought up previously, we watch tick tock or social media and we got like, the very surface of a spell or something. And mentors can actually go into that a little bit more. Yeah,

Jamie Della  

thank you. Yeah, my first examples were the eclectic Fae witch who she had pagan spots in her front yard and I swear, ladies, when I walked up, I saw a sign that said remember, she told me later that sign was never there. I mean, I saw it I said to her recently, remember that cool sign you had she's like so we used to do so I loved the way she would do pagan our holidays and afterwards we would always do a craft like it was kindergarten, you know to really bring in the I like whatever it was that like we did a collage or perhaps we created a you know, a son's I wove a sundial or did something to really kinesthetically, bring in the knowledge of each holiday. That was my first and then I attended. I have the cat in Long Beach there. Wicca one on one classes, so I would sit and study and then we had a winter solstice Festival in 2001. At this point, I had the two books out 911 had just happened. And we were all kind of shaky, but it was our first big public ceremony as witches and pagans. And so we were kind of a little louder than normal. And so we were in booth, like any festival, right? So I was in a booth signing my books. And then there was another witch shop next to me. And I could feel this woman behind me, a bigger woman, cat like eyes, Pixie haircut, and she would just every time I turned, she would smile and giggle. Like a little school girl like

the cutest little giggle.

Jamie Della  

Oh, my God, I loved it. And so I every time someone would come up with a booth, and they'd maybe be like, Oh, I don't know if I should buy a book. I could feel as whoosh of energy behind me. And they're like, this really does look like a good book and like, Okay, thank you. And so, a couple of days later, I get a phone call. And it's this woman, Connie, two masters. She's an elder, High Priestess of the crimson Dragon, druidic craft of the whys of America. And she says the spirits tell me I'm supposed to teach you. And nowadays, you'll get that message on Instagram, right? The specs tell me I need to give you a message. And then I delete it. Yeah, exactly. So would you like to pay for my reading? No, I don't want to pay for, you know, but 23 years ago, that wasn't 20 years. But that wasn't a thing. People didn't just say the spirits tell me I'm supposed to teach you. And I had just done a spell to afford mentor. Now I believe anyone can attract a mentor with a spell. But I feel like you need to know. And I like to break it down with the elements because it's easier this way. Right? Like you said Marlena, using the simplicity of our craft to teach people versus trying to confuse them by going really big and telling them like, Well, do you know about us for the age of Aquarian, but what about the age of Capricorns? You know about that one? Like, why would you do that to somebody?

Marlena  

Okay, for me? That's way too much. I'm done. Yeah, yeah, when I shut down,

Jamie Della  

it's a fire hose to the mouth. Can't do it. So in any case, if you look, if you think of the four elements, and you have water, water represents the emotions. So if you want a mentor that's going to help you work through your emotions, you created an altar with water, you know, a rhyme that you write that speaks to your right brain that speaks to the brain, part of your brain that doesn't need logic to know how things are going to work out. So you could write a rhyme to bring to you a mentor that will help you be true to the heart within I'll never part like, you know, you can just keep doing this little rhyme that helps you specifically if that's what you wanted, if you want a mentor who was fiery who's going to help you be strong and stand up to your Mexican grandfather and tell him Yes, I am a witch. Yeah, no and deal with that. Like, if you're ready for that, call your fire energy. You know, if you need Earth, if you want to speak to your ancestors, if you need someone who's going to help you understand the feeling the somatic feeling of being a witch, then you have an earth altar. If you want to learn all those correspondences like Jamie wants to like, download all the information, then you might have an air altar to speak to your intelligence with you know, feathers and different elements like candles, even because of that air, you can create any altar to to attract your mentor. So when my mentor called me and said, Are you are you the spirits? Tell me, I'm supposed to teach you. I thought, okay, we called each other. We call each other in, she was the same age when she reached out to me that I am now. So the serendipity of being in our mid 50s coming out with this book, and being incredibly relevant because we need our elders in witchcraft. I think it's fabulous that we have the 20s and the 30s, and the 40s. And everybody coming in and dancing the maiden mother, Crone, but right now I'm a queen. I'm in between the mother and that elder, right. And so you know, we still have that vibrancy to bring to you, our magis and share with you how to live it, because it's one thing to say, for example, my mentor, Connie masters, so I sat down with her. I said, What can I bring? And she said, bring a caramel macchiato and a maple nut stone from Starbucks. And I said, okay, okay. That was the trade of my matches every week, because that's what I brought. Yeah, exactly. She lived in this greedy part of Long Beach, and I was living in a suburban part of Orange County. So going to her also just kind of felt like you are tearing off all those protections that keep you quote, unquote, safe to go learn and sit at her knee and have her tell me how to live imagine, you know, she gave me one of the first things she did is she gave me a meditation for protection. She said, you're out there, all the time. I'm here, bringing people into my home. But you're out there trying to get people to not hurt us anymore. I mean, there was people who could lose your children, if you were a witch, like that wasn't okay. So we had to stop that. And that's why I kept fighting until and being that witch because I had the energy because I had the courage, because I had a mentor, who could show me the light that I am that I can always see for myself. I feel like mentors not only help you apply this esoteric knowledge to the mundane existence, but they also give us that courage to take the next step to do the things that scare us a little bit. Because we know we could go home and go, alright, I tried to talk to her. And I sat down with my mentor, and I'm in my early 30s, I was still fighting with my mom, we were still going loggerheads a lot of the time. And so I said to her, I said to my mentor, Connie, I said, How can I say I love the goddess if I'm having mommy issues? Yeah. Right. You know, because how do you ask me that question? You don't? You can't, it doesn't respond. Pass those machines over. But I think that they think that like, for me having that ability to sit down and ask someone who was 20 years older, but how does this help me with my marriage? How am I going to get my kid into the kindergarten school I want or, you know, deal with the friends that are falling away, because I'm going in a different direction, just all of that stuff. And with the mom stuff, my mentor said to me, you know, the mother goddess is the big mother. And you and your mother are the little Mother, you are one aspect of this grand, divine feminine energy, and you're doing your best as a human. Your mother didn't come on this planet to be your mother. I know you think she did. But she didn't. You know, she has her own destiny, her own life path. And the way to healing our relationships is to not look at them as the role that they play for us. But a person who's walking next to us on this path. Because if we say oh, you're the you're the mother or the sister or the husband or the whatever, and this is how you're supposed to act, you're gonna get disappointed. Yeah, you know, but if we can love them as their own unique expression of the divine essence that we just do we align Can we walk next to each other on this path? I mean, I think that is really allowing for people to have respect, just like the respect that we want to live our witchy lives

Jamie  

and love the activism aspect you're bringing in with Yeah, I think I read it. I'm not sure if I read it on your website or in your story as to this next book. Remember you bringing Yup, Connie. And but you had said, involving the activism of witchcraft and crossing those those boundaries and allowing people to step into the world without fear really, is how I took it. So I really I really do appreciate that activism role that you bring in with your, your practicing and your in your talks.

Jamie Della  

Thank you, I feel like being a witch is being an earth activist, or resource activist water at all, you know, all of it, because we revere it, because it's part of our, our practices these pillars of of knowledge and energy. And yeah, where I live, the Los Angeles has a straw, an aqueduct, from our water here, because that goes straight to them. And they don't have to by law, because they took the land a long time ago, leave any water here, right? They don't have to do that we can we can become their destination, their outside playground, but they don't have to even maintain it. Right. So I started a newsletter with one of the organizations here to let people understand more about that and stepping in, I think it's just stepping in wherever you're asked, you know, or by the universe, not necessarily someone's coming up and asking you but you know, if you if you saw somebody choking and and you knew how to relieve them why, you know, if you have the knowledge and want to explain, you know, not so long ago, I'm not sure if it was I know it was on my website somewhere. But our neighbors ripped out all this native vegetation and built huge trees, and we live two houses away from the John Muir wilderness. And he ripped out all this native vegetation and put in an acre of grass. And just kept I was digging for like another well and was doing all these things. And I was getting so frustrated. And my friends like well, just we have a local murder mystery dinner, just read the murder mystery dinner. And the whole point was, you know, that ridiculousness of someone who doesn't recognize you're in the community? You're a neighbor, you know, we all lean on each other. You don't go to dig a second. Well, that's completely illegal because you're afraid you might run out of water. Well, what about everyone? Like we share, right? And just using comedy and irony and satire as a way to help people wake up, because laughter is the best way. Otherwise, you're just proselytizing, standing on your soapbox, and no one's gonna listen to you.

Jamie  

Yep, we are all guests on this planet. We can embrace it, or we can destroy it. So. Right. And I like to

Jamie Della  

hook it. Yes, it is. It does hug back. Yeah. And I, you know, so you were asking earlier about my mentor. And, you know, I want to tell the story of how this book came out. And

Marlena  

so that's to lead into that so.

Jamie Della  

So, a box of magic is my next book. And it is a guided journey, because it's a book that's braided. So it has narration that explains it. It's all based on the hero's journey. And for those who don't know, this comes from Joseph Campbell, it's this idea of story of how we have a personal transformation. And that is a we have to answer a call to adventure, to go on it to begin with. So you think of anything from the Star Wars to the Hobbit. That's kind of the reluctant hero at first. And then they meet allies. So those allies are the herbs and the crystals and the correspondences, the colors, the numbers, all those different things. Those are all our allies as part of our spiritual witchcraft practice. And then if you're lucky, you meet a mentor, or you find one and you create one. And, you know, free to Caillou could be a mentor, like your mentors don't have to be witchcraft, it can just be somebody who shows you how to stand up for themselves, whatever that might be. So and then we go through the abyss, or our shadow selves, we really have to face those things that are holding us back. And then we go on this journey and we return with the chalice, the the gift of the goddess it's called. And that chalice is our own self knowledge. And that's what we bring back. And that's what we share with our community. So our book, this book is based on those concepts. It includes a chronicling of sitting at my mentors knee for three years, and learning all these steps learn how to face my shadow, to say, you know, I'm having this problem with my parents or like my dad that took off and I never met him, like, how do I how do I love the divine male if I don't have his representation, and my life of him, what do I how do I find that and so, so I make sure that all the times that I met with my mentor, it really does give you an example of How to live it. We all learn through stories and parables, so much more than text, right. And so the stories were so important, and then the rituals and the spells after it for each chapter as well to integrate it into your own knowledge. So you're reading it, it satisfies the mental brain. And then you see the connection. So there your heart with my mentor and myself, and then this spell so then you get to do it. So you have the earth in the fire. So I've included all of that. But so what happened was, right before the pandemic, it was on a book tour for the book of spells, the book of spells, the box of magic, I will get this straight. So I was on a book tour, and I went to a psychic reading and he said, There's Somebody's here and he started describing physically describing my mentor. And he said, she says she wants you to get a picture of her and take her on a book tour. I was just like you Marlena. What you're saying like, okay, that's instruction. We'll follow it. We don't know where we're going here. But we're the cookie crumbs. Yep. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I wouldn't I got this picture of my god a picture of my mentor, I put a post on Facebook. And her daughter responded with a picture. And then I put it in a frame and I put on my altar, just kind of like, Okay, what's next? And then her daughter called me a couple of months later and said, pandemic hit, everybody was cleaning. And she said, I found this box of all my mom's teachings, and her education. Would you like it? And I said, Well, yes, the entire family had been consulted. It was 23 pounds of her studies from the ESP Institute, from 1971, to school of Wicca correspondences to her own hand written Handfasting ritual, this, this amazing collection, I didn't know what to do with it all. I mean, one of the pieces in there is this, like a tomb from 1975, from the father of the druidic craft of the whys of America, and all this stuff that I didn't, I wasn't even sure what to do with it all. And then after 18 months of it just sitting on my desk in my office, I heard Connie say, tell them about us, because she had this little flexibler. So super. So I said, Okay, let's talk let's, and let me remember who we were and how I learned and what it was like when I didn't have all the information. But I did also want to download it as quickly as possible. Just have it be part of me, I didn't want to go through the steps. But you know, you do have to. So I took this and I divided up her material. And we ended up into those 12 steps of the hero's journey. And I made this huge chart of how old I was at each time how old my sons were, you know how I involve them in my witchcraft practice. Like, for example, my youngest son, I knew to get the placenta, I didn't know you could actually ask for your placenta, you know, for the baby. So I took that home on a TO GO Box, and go when they got I know I did, I thought it was like, it was a hospital that opened up with midwives. So they're like, Okay, like, it wasn't weird for them. I thought that was cool. But you know, like talking about teaching my kids when they were like two, when they got a little bit older, I want them to understand, I said, Okay, this was a balloon that you lived in, in Mama's belly. And now we're going to plant it under this aloe plant, because Aloe is good for healing any wounds and it and it can grow with you. So at two years old, I've been teaching my sons how magic works through relationships. It's not through the memorization, it's to the relationship that we have with the plant with the ritual. And so then that plant is still alive. 24 years later, we have babies of it, I eventually buried the root ball in at the dried out river where my family has lived for over 200 years, we're as many practices as possible to be as juicy and connected to the earth, and our own barrel nature. And so when I, you know, put this book together, and now I have it this box of magic, and now Connie really is going on tour with me with her little picture and heard her spelled as it were came true. And now I get to share all of this and her daughter and her family gets to have their matriarch remembered in a way that is very honoring of our, our teachers. Yes. It's how important it is to remember our teachers that we didn't just come to this knowledge all by ourselves, we did it in a community learning together, right?

Marlena  

That is so beautiful. I love it so much. And it's funny and I know that you and I discussed this previously, but you were talking about the hero's journey, and we actually had a an episode where we discussed the hero's journey and the fool's journey and the correlation between the two. I remember say And I'm looking for friends and mentors. And here you are talking about this book that's coming out from your mentor. And so you know, again, little breadcrumbs. So I can't wait, cannot wait for your book to come out.

Jamie Della  

Thank you. I'm so excited about it. I am so excited about it. And then I also got to record the audiobook. So you don't often get to narrate your own book. But I asked, and they let me so I said, Okay. And then I went down to Long Beach. I swear, I recorded I wanted to record, everything was symbolic, right? Everything's always symbolic. So I went to a dream studio. So because it's on Martin Luther King Boulevard. So the whole I have a dream. And this is also a dream for witchcraft to break the glass ceiling and to be seen by the mid by the mainstream. But also, I really hope at some point, we take a little in breath so that we can absorb all this information that everyone's sharing so much, you know, really have that time. It may be a book like this is part of that. The idea of sitting with a mentor and sitting with someone who can help us actualize the magic in our lives versus just having all the correspondences everywhere. It's like, yeah, you know, like, decorated like, Look, I'm a good witch, I've got all the tools. And that's not what makes you, you know, just don't

Marlena  

know how to use them. Yeah,

Jamie Della  

I have all the herbs, all the things I know. And I know exactly what to do with every single one of them. But yeah, so I went to her house, of course, she's not there anymore. But I I cut the grass, like ripped grass and clover and brought that to me and created an altar and have that picture of her and pictures of myself when I was younger with my sons and and just bringing myself back completely and surrounding myself by that energy. And then I went to go meet with my sixth grade teacher, because we're still friends because she taught me how to write. And so I went met with her. And then I ended up parking literally right next to the Iowa cat store where I had taken classes, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, and just finding it over and over again, I feel like intuition is a muscle. And the more that we follow it, and the more that we see those signs, the more our conviction grows, that the sign will be there the next time we need it. And the every time we respond to it, then that connection goes stronger and stronger and stronger in the same way that it grows stronger with the herbs that you might use, the more you use them. The different ways that you learn like, oh, not only is your good for wound healing, it's also connected to Achilles, and the many flowers. And maybe this is also about the standing up in battle. And there's, you find out the different aspects of each of your allies. And so for me being able to do the audiobook, and conclude all that magic and see it over and over again, the chills every morning, too. And then I lost my voice like Marlena, you were saying that, you know, got sick and lost your voice. So I lost my voice the week before I was supposed to audio. And I believe that there's a lot of times you know why the gargoyles are out in front of the churches is because it's like, are you ready? Right? It's not only scaring way other like negative energy or whatever. But it's also that, are you ready for this journey to break open your heart and let divine love into you? You know, and so I feel like the gargoyles at the gate, they will stop us and ask us Are you ready? And I feel like that's okay to get tested to know and have that conviction to move forward. And I just I don't know, I'm just so I'm so grateful for this path. I'm so grateful that we all have this opportunity to learn from each other and from plants. And

Marlena  

well, your book sounds absolutely amazing. Your mentor sounds absolutely amazing. One of the questions that I wanted to ask her that we had discussed some of the basic principles that your mentor had taught you. Right, wanted to go into that a little bit. So if you could explain a little bit about what she taught you.

Jamie Della  

Yeah, so I feel like two of the most guiding principles that she taught me is that to be true to yourself, that your magic is going to look different than other people's magic, your practice is going to look different. So I think that's really important because we tend to try to align with what we see, versus create something that's individual for ourselves our own expression. So that was one of the first things is to really trust that there was something beautiful about me that needed to be expressed. When we're learning to shine our light. We have that moment of like, Ooh, is this gonna piss anybody off? Am I allowed to do this? Or am I even Am I allowed to be happy? You know, the other day I was expressing to a friend of mine is some wonderful thing. Like how was your day? I'm like, it was great. It took a hot tub this morning. I did some gardening. It was a fabulous day and she said You probably shouldn't tell everybody that That ye right? Yeah. Why wouldn't I share my joy? If you're not experiencing joy? I'm sorry for you, but you can get inspired by my choice, you know? And so being true to wherever you are, and your personal expression was the first principle, is that a principle of witchcraft? Or is that a principle of life? both? It's both. Yeah. The second one, which is a little bit more witchy, is to turn every mundane Act into a magical act. And therefore, you're sweeping, you're sweeping out what no longer serves you, or maybe, you know, you're sweeping out the debris, just like we do a spring cleaning, we open up those windows because it's become stale, and become stagnant. And so that's what we're sweeping that which is stale and stagnant and getting rid of it. And then when you clean a window, you're cleaning that window, so you could see more clearly. Well, that's also so that you can like, see your life situation more clearly from your third eye from this idea of there being not a bad or a good just to is. So I found that that was really one of the important aspects because I hate cleaning. I am not one of those

women that are right there with

Jamie Della  

perfect. So you know, to do those acts with a consciousness of finding some way even folding sheets, or whatever it is to finding some way that this is bringing order. And this is doing that whatever it is to add an esoteric base to those mundane acts, because it allows more magic to come in. And if you're looking for magic magic was looking for you. So that magic will find you in that intuition. And then that was the other thing is knowing your yes know within your own body. So for example, if you walk into that room, and you feel the tension, where do you feel it? Does your heart clench up? Do your hands go cold? You know, does the back of your head tickle? Where are you feeling like, Ooh, this is not a safe space. And when you walk into a room and it's filled with love, and people are laughing, where do you feel that in your body? How do you feel the joy? How does it register joy? How do you register fear? So that way, when you need to ask yourself the bigger questions, do I take this job offer? Do I marry this person? Do I go for the second kid or whatever it is? You know, the yes no, in your own body? Yeah. And I feel that that individualization is what really the major aspect is that the value and beauty of our individual essences and how important that is to shine your unique light and to be unafraid and unapologetic like sinead o'connor bald to the 80s You know, like, you know, we had our hair up to like here with the awkwardness. Yes, and so being that unique self that fiercely unapologetically you right? That, to me was one of the most powerful lessons because witchcraft can start to look very similar, you know, or your lives but knowing that your unique essence is so important. And then living by the seasons she taught us through the Wheel of the Year, we call the Wheel of the Year, which is the eighth pagan holidays, the equinoxes and solstices, the cross quarter days the harvesting and the planting, but she also call it the mandala of nature. And that is because each point each holiday is its own meditation. So you know when this book comes out, it'll be the Fall Equinox. So this is really the witches Thanksgiving, because we celebrate Thanksgiving in November, but we aren't harvesting much then right but the Harvest Moon happens at the Fall Equinox, because we need that extra time to bring in all the goodies. And at this point, you know we sometimes we have that manifestation cap that like oh, we can only take so much goodness in otherwise we're getting greedy. Well, that's Fall Equinox. That's not a thing. You don't say I only hope that only two rows of the potatoes come out like no. You want the entire Yeah, true. You'll can you'll do whatever you need to. Because you want to get through winter. And so you don't hold back and you find that balance in yourself it's at other time to find balance is my work life. Play in balance is my balance. Good with expressing my creative self but also listening my also good listener, you know, finding all the different ways that you can find that harmony, because it's not always going to be 5050 Right? There's going to be sometimes we're gonna need more rest, sometimes more action, but finding harmony rather than looking for balance, I feel is what the Fall Equinox teaches us. but each one has its own lessons. And therefore its own meditations.

Marlena  

I just cannot wait for your book to come out a box of magic September 26. People so excited. So thank you. I do have a few more questions, there is something that you had brought up friendship, female friendship and witchcraft. And so wanted to go over that with you as well, the community of women, please. Yeah,

Jamie Della  

I think women? Well, I hope I really do. Well, I think all of us have this opportunity. But because women are more cyclical and cyclical. I mean, we have the cycles in our daily life for however long our menses lasts,

Jamie  

and not a metaphor, people

Jamie Della  

know, and we have the opportunity to grow life. And if we're growing life, then we're sharing emotions. And even through chemicals, right? Through our joy, our grief, our whatever it is, we're sharing with those bodies that we have within our own bodies. And therefore women understand, like, if you ask a woman for directions, she's gonna tell you, you go down the hill, you turn right at the big tree, and then you'll see the mountain coming up above and then you curve to the left, a man is gonna go right, left, left, right, but we're gonna tell you in relationship to what's nearby. Yeah, the tree, the mountain, the whatever the steepness of the hill, we will explain the relationships because that's our way of thinking and approaching the world. And therefore, I believe strongly in the sisterhood and the Goddess energy that goddess rising the sisterhood, because I believe we recognize that when you light a candle, it doesn't take away your flame. Right? It brightens the world when do light another candle? A rising tide lifts all boats, these are all ideas that women are just gonna go aha, yep, that's true. And I feel like that is the power that witchcraft teaches us. Because we are primarily a collection of women, there are definitely men witches, but you find it primarily the women who are following this practice. And therefore we have that responsibility to each other to lift each other up, I'd like to see more of that in our practice, I'd like to see, but here, all of us are doing it, right. We're all honoring each of what they are bringing to this conversation. You know, even if it's the nods of encouragement, or whatever it is that we're, you know, laughing all that good stuff, because you know, I feel that that sisterhood within magic is one of our most magical things to really support each other, and making your dreams come true and living the life that you want to because I completely believe that we are born with original innocence, that we have an infallible lovability. And that we co create our lives, even when they're shitty, even when they're good. And so they ride those emotions, because they're not always gonna be full of abundance. But when it is, have a good time with it. And I hope that your sisters will be cheering you on, as whatever it is, you get a promotion, you have your 10th book coming out, you go on a trip to Thailand, you know, but whatever it is that you do, that we can support each other. And I feel like that's only going to make us stronger and kind of like almost like that shell of protection around us all with that love and that support and that connectivity. I mean, we just even seeing it. I mean, I know this will come out afterwards. But you know, the summer is crazy with the Barbie movie, right? You know, really stepping up and saying, This is our experience, right? America Ferraris monologue where she just how we're Oh, I cheered. I clapped so powerful to recognize this dichotomy that women are living in. Do this good, but not this good. But like, it's just crazy. And to start to recognize that and to support each other as we're busting out of that. Those boxes that keep us not giving our full expression. There's nothing like having your sisters cheering you on. There's just nothing I get in the world.

Christy  

There really isn't.

Jamie  

I haven't even seen that movie. I've seen the post about her speech. Yeah, and I'm like, Oh my God, I need to see this movie. Yes,

Jamie Della  

yeah. Where I live there's like one theater and so if something's playing you go because it's only gonna be there for like a week, you know, and then they're gonna bring in some banging them up, shoot up movie real quick. So we rushed down there wore our pink did our thing. And you know, I was raised without Barbies. I wasn't allowed Barbies. I grew up. My mom was such a feminist. She wanted me to play soccer she wanted to be just go out there and do the guys things. I was on the football team even you know and then like couple years later became a cheerleader. And I think she was like, oh my god

Jamie  

stop being such a fan of your stuff me.

Christy  

Don't be self me.

Jamie Della  

But what There's a definition of women, you know, what is the definition of feminism? You know, for me, it's not only gender equality, it's also elevating the goddess principles, this idea of reaching out to each other of being in community of being in circle. You know, and knowing that in that circle, nobody has hierarchy. That's why the circle exist to show that we are one member of a community

Marlena  

that is beautiful. And I think that's the perfect way to end. So. We need to have I know, we do need to have Jamie back. So everybody go out and get her book, a box of magic on September 26. She does have the pre orders available. So if you want to preorder that you can go to her website, Jamie della.com. You can go and get her book, a box of magic. I can't wait for it to come out. And thank you so much for being on the show with us to be able to speak about your books speak about your experience. Give us so much to think about. Just thank you. And yes, we definitely need to have you back.

Jamie Della  

Oh my god, this was so much fun. This is such a fun podcast. There's just so much love and support and it's not pretentious, it's available. It's accessible. I just I love what you ladies are doing. So thank you so much for what

Marlena  

you're doing. So thank you.

Christy  

And with that, I will wrap it up and thank everyone for listening to another episode of a witch, a mystic Anna feminist with our very special guests Jamie della today, feel free to connect with us on W MF pod.com and we will see you next week.